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Wellbeing · Mental health

Anxiety in the first weeks: drug, situation, or both

SR
s.roosTL210 Sep 2024#1

On the subject in the title: Anxiety in the first weeks: drug, situation, or both Working notes rather than a conclusion.

The question about anxiety that I actually want answered is the second one below. The first is context and I have kept it short.

Both are stated with units, and I have said what I already checked so that nobody repeats it.

24 likes 23mo
YR
y.ramosTL217 Sep 2024#2

What I can speak to on anxiety is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know.

27 likes 22mo
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OkaforTL3Regular23 Sep 2024#3

Narrowing post #2, because the general version has more than one answer.

Motivation and expectation: starting with clear motivation and realistic expectations about what will happen and when helps with psychological adjustment.

I would want the raw data before agreeing with my own summary of it.

0 likes 22mo
NS
n.szaboTL228 Sep 2024#4

The most useful reply I ever got about anxiety was a request to state my units. It sounds like pedantry and it has saved me twice.

2 likes 22mo
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GDashwoodTL32 Oct 2024#5
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j.teixeiraTL26 Oct 2024 · edited#6

Noted, and I have changed what I was going to do on the strength of it.

0 likes 22mo
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v.klausenTL3Regular10 Oct 2024#7

Post #4 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Where a member is finding this hard, the useful reply is usually a question rather than an answer, and this subcategory does that well.

0 likes 22mo
CH
ca.haddadTL214 Oct 2024#8

I read post #4 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Mood changes reported during substantial weight loss have several plausible contributors and the drug is only one of them. Energy restriction alone is a well-documented one.

Someone should write this up properly, and it should probably not be me.

4 likes 21mo
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DOdendaalTL3Regular18 Oct 2024#9
y.ramos, post #2: What I can speak to on anxiety is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know. Go to post

Picking up post #7: that is the part I would want checked first.

Support and community: some people process weight change through community (online or in-person). Others prefer privacy. Knowing what you need and seeking it proactively helps.

26 likes in reply to #2 21mo
CM
c.marchettiTL222 Oct 2024#10

Practical answer on anxiety, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

0 likes 21mo
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TL4_HalvorsenTL4Leader · Journal club25 Oct 2024#11

Where I have landed on anxiety, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it.

15 likes 21mo
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j.vogelTL229 Oct 2024#12

Social and relationship impacts: weight change affects how others perceive and interact with a person. Those impacts are real and can be psychologically significant.

5 likes 21mo
AD
appeals_deskTL3Regular1 Nov 2024#13
DOdendaal, post #9: Picking up post #7: that is the part I would want checked first. Support and community: some people process weight change through community (online or in-person). Others prefer privacy. Knowing what you need and seeking it proactively helps. Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #11 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Adding the boring version of anxiety, because the interesting version keeps getting posted and the boring one is usually right.

Check the ordinary explanations, in order, and stop when one of them accounts for what you are seeing. Most of the time the second one does.

0 likes in reply to #9 21mo
HL
h.lindqvistTL25 Nov 2024#14
v.klausen, post #7: Post #4 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Where a member is finding this hard, the useful reply is usually a question rather than an answer, and this subcategory does that well. Go to post

Confirming post #11 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Before the thread moves on from anxiety — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred.

29 likes in reply to #7 21mo
LI
l.ibarraTL28 Nov 2024#15
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a.kirchnerTL211 Nov 2024 · edited#16

Adding the measurement that post #14 says would settle it.

I keep a log for anxiety specifically because my memory of it turned out to be systematically wrong in one direction. Six weeks of notes cost nothing and settled it.

3 likes 21mo
MH
m.haddadTL2Regular15 Nov 2024#17

Where I part company with post #16, and it is a narrow parting.

For anyone finding this later: the short answer on anxiety is that it depends on one thing, and the rest of the thread is people identifying which thing.

0 likes 20mo
AD
a.delgadoTL218 Nov 2024#18
TL4_Halvorsen, post #11: Where I have landed on anxiety, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it. Go to post

Nothing here is medical advice and several members in this subcategory say plainly that they are describing their own experience only.

Take the reasoning and check the arithmetic; I do not always get it right.

22 likes in reply to #11 20mo
FT
fr.translation_moTL2Translator · FR21 Nov 2024#19

Clear enough that I do not think I have a follow-up, which is unusual.

28 likes 20mo
KM
k.marchandTL224 Nov 2024#20
a.kirchner, post #16: Adding the measurement that post #14 says would settle it. I keep a log for anxiety specifically because my memory of it turned out to be systematically wrong in one direction. Six weeks of notes cost nothing and settled it. Go to post

Nobody has said the unglamorous part of anxiety yet, so: most of the variation is explained by things that are boring to write about and easy to check.

14 likes in reply to #16 20mo
BP
baseline_peakTL2Member27 Nov 2024#21

Post #20 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Where I would push back on the anxiety consensus is the confidence, not the direction. The direction looks right. The confidence is borrowed.

9 likes 20mo
BN
b.nwosuTL230 Nov 2024#22
ca.haddad, post #8: I read post #4 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Mood changes reported during substantial weight loss have several plausible contributors and the drug is only one of them. Energy restriction alone is a well-documented one. Someone should write this up properly, and it should probably not be me. Go to post

Coming back to post #18, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Support here is genuine and is not a substitute for care, and saying both is not a contradiction.

The claim is narrower than it sounds, and deliberately so.

20 likes in reply to #8 20mo
MS
m.stephanopoulosTL3Regular3 Dec 2024#23

Anxiety looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour.

0 likes 20mo
NN
n.norgaardTL26 Dec 2024#24

Small methodological point on anxiety: repeating a measurement is cheap and resolves most of what is being argued about here at no cost to anyone.

0 likes 20mo
RG
r.girardTL29 Dec 2024#25

Tracking mood alongside dose and weeks, on a simple scale, produces a record that is far more useful than a recollection at an appointment.

If anyone can point at the primary source I would be grateful.

13 likes 20mo
CS
c.silvaTL212 Dec 2024#26
v.klausen, post #7: Post #4 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Where a member is finding this hard, the useful reply is usually a question rather than an answer, and this subcategory does that well. Go to post

Same experience here, different supplier, so it is at least not unique to one of them.

28 likes in reply to #7 20mo
AZ
a.zamoraTL215 Dec 2024#27

An honest declaration on anxiety: I have a prior here and it is strong enough that you should weight what I say downward. Stating it rather than hiding it.

0 likes 19mo
DT
d.tammTL218 Dec 2024#28
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h.nicolaidesTL3Regular21 Dec 2024#29
c.marchetti, post #10: Practical answer on anxiety, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not. Go to post

Expectations set by other people's reported trajectories are a documented source of distress, and the trajectories posted are not representative.

19 likes in reply to #10 19mo
PO
p.onwukaTL223 Dec 2024#30

Careful with the language on anxiety. "Not detected" and "not present" are different findings and the first is a statement about the method.

0 likes 19mo