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Coming back to: An 18-month record including the parts that went badly

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Solved by an.kirchner in post #2
Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together. 18-month record is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

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s.vanheckeTL215 Dec 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: An 18-month record including the parts that went badly Everything below is what sits behind that.

Asking about 18-month record on behalf of the question I keep seeing asked badly, including by me.

Framed properly it is answerable. Framed the usual way it is not, and that is most of why the previous threads went nowhere.

4 likes 19mo
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an.kirchnerTL2 Solution22 Dec 2024 · edited#2

Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together.

18-month record is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

8 likes 19mo
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RidgewayTL3Regular27 Dec 2024#3

The opening post is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

The best progress reports here read as records rather than as arguments, and that difference is visible within a sentence.

26 likes 19mo
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z.adeyemiTL21 Jan 2025#4
an.kirchner, post #2: Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together. 18-month record is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at. Go to post

Plateaus and resets: if weight loss stalls and then resumes, that is ordinary. It is not evidence that the medication stopped working. It is not evidence that it is still working either. It is a data point in a longer record.

Written quickly, so the reasoning may be tighter than the wording.

0 likes in reply to #2 19mo
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cohort_notesTL2Member5 Jan 2025#5

An update on my earlier 18-month record post: the pattern held for another six weeks and then stopped, which I did not predict and cannot explain.

0 likes 19mo
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s.kravchenkoTL29 Jan 2025#6

Distinguishing three things in the 18-month record discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both.

4 likes 19mo
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gradient_fileTL2Member13 Jan 2025#7

Post #4 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Medication changes: escalating dose, or adding or removing other medications, can affect the rate of weight loss. Documenting medication changes alongside weight makes the record interpretable.

19 likes 18mo
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f.espinozaTL216 Jan 2025#8
Ridgeway, post #3: The opening post is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. The best progress reports here read as records rather than as arguments, and that difference is visible within a sentence. Go to post

I read post #6 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

18-month record sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly.

0 likes in reply to #3 18mo
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WoodhouseTL2Member20 Jan 2025#9

Building on post #8 rather than restating it.

Two questions I would want answered before drawing anything from the 18-month record data above: how were the cases selected, and what happened to the ones that dropped out.

7 likes 18mo
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z.vogelTL223 Jan 2025#10

Rate of change matters more than the absolute number for most of the questions people ask about their own series.

It took me longer than it should have to see that.

18 likes 18mo
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d.tammTL226 Jan 2025#11
f.espinoza, post #8: I read post #6 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. 18-month record sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly. Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #9 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Photographs at fixed intervals under fixed conditions are a better record of composition change than the scale, and much harder to standardise.

This is the sort of thing that ought to be settled and apparently is not.

0 likes in reply to #8 18mo
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a.zamoraTL230 Jan 2025#12
s.kravchenko, post #6: Distinguishing three things in the 18-month record discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both. Go to post

Confirming post #9 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

If a pattern survives a rolling-mean treatment it is worth explaining. Most do not, and that is the useful finding.

19 likes in reply to #6 18mo
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c.silvaTL22 Feb 2025#13

18-month record looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour.

8 likes 18mo
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r.girardTL25 Feb 2025#14

Bookmarking this. I will come back when I have something worth adding.

2 likes 18mo
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mira.patelTL4 Admin8 Feb 2025#15

Where I would push back on the 18-month record consensus is the confidence, not the direction. The direction looks right. The confidence is borrowed.

27 likes 18mo
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a.novakTL211 Feb 2025#16
gradient_file, post #7: Post #4 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Medication changes: escalating dose, or adding or removing other medications, can affect the rate of weight loss. Documenting medication changes alongside weight makes the record interpretable. Go to post

Post #13 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Protein intake and resistance training: both self-reported and therefore optimistic in most reports. Recording them anyway creates a record you can look back on.

Happy to be corrected if someone holds better data than mine.

13 likes in reply to #7 18mo
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a.adebayoTL214 Feb 2025 · edited#17

Trying to state the 18-month record position in a way that someone who disagrees would recognise as fair, because I do not think the version in this thread passes that test.

4 likes 17mo
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b.fonsecaTL217 Feb 2025#18

Having read the whole 18-month record thread before replying: the question in the first post has not actually been answered yet, and three of us have answered a nearby one instead.

0 likes 17mo
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lc_gradientTL3Analytical chemist20 Feb 2025#19

Menstrual cycle: for people who menstruate, weight can shift by several pounds across the cycle due to fluid retention and other factors. Noting cycle phase when weighing reduces apparent noise.

20 likes 17mo
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r.zielinskiTL223 Feb 2025#20
s.kravchenko, post #6: Distinguishing three things in the 18-month record discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both. Go to post

The strongest argument against my own position on 18-month record, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

8 likes in reply to #6 17mo
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unit_conversionTL3Regular26 Feb 2025#21
c.silva, post #13: 18-month record looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour. Go to post

What I can speak to on 18-month record is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know.

0 likes in reply to #13 17mo
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z.cardosoTL21 Mar 2025#22
lc_gradient, post #19: Menstrual cycle: for people who menstruate, weight can shift by several pounds across the cycle due to fluid retention and other factors. Noting cycle phase when weighing reduces apparent noise. Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #20 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Maintenance series are the ones this subcategory needs most and receives least. The interesting questions all change once loss stops.

4 likes in reply to #19 17mo
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q.zhao_qaTL3Quality assurance3 Mar 2025#23

Picking up post #22: that is the part I would want checked first.

Protein intake and resistance training: both self-reported and therefore optimistic in most reports. Recording them anyway creates a record you can look back on.

19 likes 17mo
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i.lehtinenTL26 Mar 2025 · edited#24

Counterpoint on 18-month record, offered without confidence: the same observation is consistent with a much duller explanation, and nobody has ruled the dull one out.

0 likes 17mo
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forest_plotTL3Evidence synthesis9 Mar 2025#25
c.silva, post #13: 18-month record looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour. Go to post

On 18-month record I would separate what is worth knowing from what is worth acting on. The first list is long and the second is short, and conflating them is how threads get heated.

0 likes in reply to #13 17mo
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s.antonsenTL211 Mar 2025#26

This settles it for me, at least until somebody posts a reason it should not.

2 likes 17mo
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blank_injectionTL2Analytical chemist14 Mar 2025#27

This follows post #25 rather than contradicting it.

Self-reported intake is optimistic in a consistent direction, and saying so in your own report is more credible than not.

13 likes 16mo
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n.villalobosTL217 Mar 2025#28

Worth separating two things that post #24 runs together.

The honest answer on 18-month record is that it depends, and the useful part is the list of what it depends on. Four items, in rough order of how much they matter.

Most people get the first two right and then argue about the fourth.

27 likes 16mo
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citation_peakTL3Regular19 Mar 2025#29

Practical answer on 18-month record, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

4 likes 16mo
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a.cabreraTL222 Mar 2025 · edited#30
Ridgeway, post #3: The opening post is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. The best progress reports here read as records rather than as arguments, and that difference is visible within a sentence. Go to post

Nothing here is medical advice and a progress report is a description of what happened to one person under uncontrolled conditions.

Reading it back, the second half matters more than the first.

13 likes in reply to #3 16mo