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Devices · Syringes & needles

Second pass at: Gauge and length selection for subcutaneous injection

LP
l.piresTL28 Nov 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Second pass at: Gauge and length selection for subcutaneous injection Everything below is what sits behind that.

The question about Gauge and length selection that I actually want answered is the second one below. The first is context and I have kept it short.

Both are stated with units, and I have said what I already checked so that nobody repeats it.

4 likes 21mo
D
DOdendaalTL3Regular15 Nov 2024#2

Gauge and length selection came up in a thread eighteen months ago and was answered well. I cannot find it, which is itself the problem, so here is the reconstruction.

8 likes 20mo
CM
c.marchettiTL220 Nov 2024#3

Gauge is the outside diameter and higher numbers are thinner. Thinner needles hurt less and draw more slowly, which is the entire trade.

I looked this up rather than remembered it, which is the right order.

26 likes 20mo
SF
sterile_fileTL3Regular24 Nov 2024#4

Post #2 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Needle length: typical lengths for subcutaneous injection are 4-6 mm (short), 8 mm (standard), or 10-12 mm (longer). Longer needles are needed for deeper tissue or if you have abdominal adiposity.

That is what I would do. It may not be what is correct.

0 likes 20mo
FL
f.lindholmTL228 Nov 2024#5
l.pires, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Second pass at: Gauge and length selection for subcutaneous injection Everything below is what sits behind that. The question about Gauge and length selection that I actually want answered is the second one below. The first is context and I have kept it short. Both are stated with units, and I… Go to post

Aspirating before injection: for subcutaneous injection, aspirating (pulling back on the plunger to check for blood) is not necessary and is sometimes discouraged because it is associated with more discomfort. Subcutaneous injection without aspiration is standard practice.

That has held every time I have looked, which is not the same as always.

4 likes in reply to #1 20mo
IL
integrator_logTL3Regular2 Dec 2024#6
DOdendaal, post #2: Gauge and length selection came up in a thread eighteen months ago and was answered well. I cannot find it, which is itself the problem, so here is the reconstruction. Go to post

Reporting rather than recommending, on Gauge and length selection. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer.

12 likes in reply to #2 20mo
SS
s.salgadoTL26 Dec 2024#7

The arithmetic in post #4 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Sharps containers are a legal requirement for disposal in several jurisdictions and a sensible precaution everywhere. A rigid sealed container is the minimum.

Take the reasoning and check the arithmetic; I do not always get it right.

0 likes 20mo
ED
e.dalgleishTL3Regular10 Dec 2024 · edited#8

Answering the question post #6 raises rather than the one it answers.

Counterpoint on Gauge and length selection, offered without confidence: the same observation is consistent with a much duller explanation, and nobody has ruled the dull one out.

0 likes 20mo
IW
i.wojcikTL213 Dec 2024#9

I came in to disagree and I am leaving without a disagreement.

7 likes 19mo
BE
bench_entryTL317 Dec 2024#10
ON
o.nybergTL220 Dec 2024#11
bench_entry, post #10: Post #6 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Needle gauge: smaller numbers (30G) are finer and less painful. Larger numbers (25G) are courser. For subcutaneous injection, 27-30G is typical. Finer needles take longer to draw up but hurt less. Go to post

That reframing is the whole thing. The facts I already had.

0 likes in reply to #10 19mo
M
MakinenTL2Member24 Dec 2024#12

Needle length for subcutaneous delivery is a question about tissue depth and injection angle together. Short needles at ninety degrees and longer ones at an angle reach comparable depths.

25 likes 19mo
ZV
z.vogelTL227 Dec 2024#13

Where I part company with post #12, and it is a narrow parting.

Speaking only to Gauge and length selection as I have actually seen it, rather than as it is usually described: the effect is real, it is smaller than the thread suggests, and the variance between people is larger than the effect.

11 likes 19mo
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WoodhouseTL2Member30 Dec 2024#14

The useful distinction on Gauge and length selection is between what was measured and what was inferred from it. Both end up in the same sentence and only one of them has error bars.

4 likes 19mo
FE
f.espinozaTL22 Jan 2025#15
l.pires, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Second pass at: Gauge and length selection for subcutaneous injection Everything below is what sits behind that. The question about Gauge and length selection that I actually want answered is the second one below. The first is context and I have kept it short. Both are stated with units, and I… Go to post

Reusing a needle blunts it and there is no benefit to offset that. The second injection with the same needle is the one people describe as painful.

0 likes in reply to #1 19mo
GF
gradient_fileTL2Member5 Jan 2025#16

Narrowing post #13, because the general version has more than one answer.

The most useful thing anyone has posted about Gauge and length selection in this category was a table of what had been measured and by whom. That is what I would want again.

33 likes 19mo
SK
s.kravchenkoTL28 Jan 2025 · edited#17

Two claims get bundled together under Gauge and length selection and they need separating. The descriptive one — this is what was observed — is usually well supported. The causal one — this is why — usually is not.

Almost every disagreement in threads like this one dissolves once you say which of the two you are making.

17 likes 19mo
CN
cohort_notesTL2Member11 Jan 2025#18
integrator_log, post #6: Reporting rather than recommending, on Gauge and length selection. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer. Go to post

U-100 means the barrel is graduated for a solution containing one hundred units of insulin per millilitre. For anything that is not insulin, the units are simply hundredths of a millilitre.

7 likes in reply to #6 19mo
HF
h.ferrariTL214 Jan 2025#19

Where the Gauge and length selection reasoning breaks down for me is the step from the group result to the individual case. That step is almost never argued for.

1 like 18mo
RF
r.friskTL217 Jan 2025#20

I think the Gauge and length selection question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

0 likes 18mo
RP
r.petrovTL220 Jan 2025#21
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preregisteredTL3Research methods23 Jan 2025#22
l.pires, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Second pass at: Gauge and length selection for subcutaneous injection Everything below is what sits behind that. The question about Gauge and length selection that I actually want answered is the second one below. The first is context and I have kept it short. Both are stated with units, and I… Go to post

Everything in post #20 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Adding a reference point for Gauge and length selection. Mine is a single case, collected without controls, and I am posting the method alongside it so it can be discounted appropriately.

14 likes in reply to #1 18mo
BV
b.vanheckeTL225 Jan 2025#23

Reading rather than answering, but this is the post I would point somebody at.

0 likes 18mo
PE
ppm_errorTL3Analytical chemist28 Jan 2025#24

U-100 means the barrel is graduated for a solution containing one hundred units of insulin per millilitre. For anything that is not insulin, the units are simply hundredths of a millilitre.

One of those cases where knowing the mechanism does not help the decision.

0 likes 18mo
NV
n.vukovicTL231 Jan 2025#25

Narrowing post #22, because the general version has more than one answer.

Two people in this thread mean different things by Gauge and length selection and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it.

9 likes 18mo
PN
plateau_notesTL2Regular3 Feb 2025 · edited#26
sterile_file, post #4: Post #2 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. Needle length: typical lengths for subcutaneous injection are 4-6 mm (short), 8 mm (standard), or 10-12 mm (longer). Longer needles are needed for deeper tissue or if you have abdominal adiposity. That is what I would do. It may not be what is correct. Go to post

Everything in post #24 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

The version of Gauge and length selection that circulates here is a simplification of a simplification. It is not wrong, but it has lost the conditions under which it holds, and those conditions are where the interesting cases live.

20 likes in reply to #4 18mo
YR
y.rahimiTL25 Feb 2025#27

Silicone coating on the barrel affects how smoothly the plunger moves and how a very slow injection feels. It is one reason two syringes at the same specification are not identical to use.

Written quickly, so the reasoning may be tighter than the wording.

0 likes 18mo
AD
appeals_deskTL3Regular8 Feb 2025#28

Practical answer on Gauge and length selection, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

2 likes 18mo
NS
n.stanescuTL211 Feb 2025#29
l.pires, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Second pass at: Gauge and length selection for subcutaneous injection Everything below is what sits behind that. The question about Gauge and length selection that I actually want answered is the second one below. The first is context and I have kept it short. Both are stated with units, and I… Go to post

Adding the measurement that post #26 says would settle it.

Since Gauge and length selection keeps coming up, it should probably be a maintained page rather than a recurring thread. I am happy to draft it if someone with more direct experience will review it.

1 like in reply to #1 18mo
NH
n.haddadTL213 Feb 2025#30

Understood. Thank you for being specific about the limits of it.

5 likes 17mo