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Documentation · Doc review

Coming back to: Recording a dissent on a document rather than suppressing it

JD
j.delacroixTL3Regular19 Oct 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Recording a dissent on a document rather than suppressing it Everything below is what sits behind that.

Recording a dissent, and specifically the version of it that the documentation does not cover. The maintained page handles the general case well and stops exactly where my question starts.

Setting out the gap in case it is a gap in the page rather than a gap in what is known.

1 like 21mo
Z
ZieglerTL3Regular26 Oct 2024#2

On the opening post — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Taking Recording a dissent seriously for a moment rather than deflecting: the honest position is that the community has observations and no controlled comparison, and those two things support very different sentences.

4 likes 21mo
GV
g.verhoevenTL21 Nov 2024#3

Confirming the opening post from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

A review date is a commitment rather than a formality, and a shorter cycle for a fast-moving subject is the whole point of setting it deliberately.

Written quickly, so the reasoning may be tighter than the wording.

18 likes 21mo
RS
r.scholtenTL2Member5 Nov 2024#4

Reviewing your own nomination is fine and is not sufficient. Somebody else has to read it for the process to mean anything.

I have written this out at length because the short version keeps being misread.

0 likes 21mo
CV
ca.vermeulenTL210 Nov 2024#5

Agreed on all of that, and I have nothing to add to it.

1 like 21mo
GL
glossary_lineTL1Member14 Nov 2024#6
r.scholten, post #4: Reviewing your own nomination is fine and is not sufficient. Somebody else has to read it for the process to mean anything. I have written this out at length because the short version keeps being misread. Go to post

Post #2 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

The most useful review comment names a sentence and says what is wrong with it. General approval and general concern are both hard to act on.

I would rather post the uncertainty than round it away.

7 likes in reply to #4 20mo
ZV
z.vogelTL218 Nov 2024#7
glossary_line, post #6: Post #2 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. The most useful review comment names a sentence and says what is wrong with it. General approval and general concern are both hard to act on. I would rather post the uncertainty than round it away. Go to post

Point three stops most nominations. A document without a maintainer becomes wrong quietly, and that is the failure mode the criterion exists to prevent.

25 likes in reply to #6 20mo
DW
diluent_watchTL2Member22 Nov 2024#8

Reviewing means reading it as somebody who needs the answer rather than as somebody checking it. Those two readings find different problems.

0 likes 20mo
ZA
z.adeyemiTL225 Nov 2024#9
j.delacroix, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Recording a dissent on a document rather than suppressing it Everything below is what sits behind that. Recording a dissent, and specifically the version of it that the documentation does not cover. The maintained page handles the general case well and stops exactly where my question starts.… Go to post

The arithmetic in post #8 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Second maintainers matter. A single maintainer is a single point of failure and every document here that went stale had one.

I would call that likely rather than established.

4 likes in reply to #1 20mo
EL
endpoint_lineTL3Regular29 Nov 2024#10
g.verhoeven, post #3: Confirming the opening post from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. A review date is a commitment rather than a formality, and a shorter cycle for a fast-moving subject is the whole point of setting it deliberately. Written quickly, so the reasoning may be tighter than the wording. Go to post

Approving a document you have not read is worse than not responding, and it happens because approval feels supportive.

12 likes in reply to #3 20mo
ST
slow_titratorTL2Regular3 Dec 2024#11
diluent_watch, post #8: Reviewing means reading it as somebody who needs the answer rather than as somebody checking it. Those two readings find different problems. Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #9 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Ask what the page would look like if it were wrong. A document with no stated failure conditions is hard to review and harder to maintain.

0 likes in reply to #8 20mo
TK
t.karlsenTL26 Dec 2024#12
WN
w.novakTL3Regular9 Dec 2024#13

No notes. Posting so the count is not one.

19 likes 20mo
YA
y.asanteTL213 Dec 2024#14

Two questions I would want answered before drawing anything from the Recording a dissent data above: how were the cases selected, and what happened to the ones that dropped out.

8 likes 19mo
JW
journalclub_wrenTL3Regular16 Dec 2024#15
t.karlsen, post #12: Confirming post #9 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. Recording a dissent: I have looked for the primary source twice and failed twice. Either it does not exist or it is somewhere I do not know to look, and I would like to know which. Go to post

Where I part company with post #14, and it is a narrow parting.

Where the review finds the content is right but the framing overstates it, that is the most valuable catch available at this stage.

2 likes in reply to #12 19mo
RF
ro.friskTL219 Dec 2024#16

Adding a small correction to the Recording a dissent summary above rather than a disagreement with it. The substance holds; one of the figures is out by a factor that matters.

0 likes 19mo
DS
dr_seongTL3Physician22 Dec 2024#17

Posting my Recording a dissent numbers with the method attached so they can be discounted properly. Uncontrolled, unblinded, and collected by someone who wanted a particular answer.

26 likes 19mo
PM
p.mwangiTL225 Dec 2024#18
g.verhoeven, post #3: Confirming the opening post from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. A review date is a commitment rather than a formality, and a shorter cycle for a fast-moving subject is the whole point of setting it deliberately. Written quickly, so the reasoning may be tighter than the wording. Go to post

Adding the measurement that post #17 says would settle it.

Check the links. Promotion frequently breaks a cross-reference because the source topic now points at the document rather than the reverse.

13 likes in reply to #3 19mo
BS
buffer_sheetTL3Regular28 Dec 2024#19

Where the review finds the content is right but the framing overstates it, that is the most valuable catch available at this stage.

That is one dataset and I would not build a rule on it.

4 likes 19mo
BW
b.wikstromTL231 Dec 2024#20

Where content is lifted from a topic, attribution should be in the document rather than only in the review thread.

The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative.

0 likes 19mo
D
DSakamotoTL3Regular3 Jan 2025 · edited#21
w.novak, post #13: No notes. Posting so the count is not one. Go to post

The most useful review comment names a sentence and says what is wrong with it. General approval and general concern are both hard to act on.

I am describing what is, rather than arguing for what should be.

33 likes in reply to #13 19mo
EK
ew.kuuselaTL26 Jan 2025#22
buffer_sheet, post #19: Where the review finds the content is right but the framing overstates it, that is the most valuable catch available at this stage. That is one dataset and I would not build a rule on it. Go to post

I keep a log for Recording a dissent specifically because my memory of it turned out to be systematically wrong in one direction. Six weeks of notes cost nothing and settled it.

0 likes in reply to #19 19mo
SS
s.stavrianosTL2Member9 Jan 2025#23

A document that repeats a paragraph already maintained elsewhere should link instead, unless the reader would be mid-task and unable to follow a link.

Anyone with a larger sample, please post it.

7 likes 19mo
AV
a.villalobosTL212 Jan 2025#24

Worth separating two things that post #20 runs together.

Nothing in a maintained document is medical advice and the review should confirm the page says so where it matters rather than only in a footer.

17 likes 18mo
KB
k.bettencourtTL2Member15 Jan 2025#25

Nothing to add on the substance. Thank you for taking the question at face value.

0 likes 18mo
AC
a.coelhoTL218 Jan 2025#26
k.bettencourt, post #25: Nothing to add on the substance. Thank you for taking the question at face value. Go to post

Where a review raises something the author disagrees with, recording the disagreement in the review thread is better than resolving it privately.

Worth checking against a second source before it gets quoted onward.

1 like in reply to #25 18mo
BT
baseline_tableTL2Member21 Jan 2025#27

Picking up post #26: that is the part I would want checked first.

Practical note on Recording a dissent: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow.

11 likes 18mo
TB
t.brandtTL224 Jan 2025#28

On post #24 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Reviewing means reading it as somebody who needs the answer rather than as somebody checking it. Those two readings find different problems.

23 likes 18mo
N
NicolaidesTL3Regular26 Jan 2025#29
a.villalobos, post #24: Worth separating two things that post #20 runs together. Nothing in a maintained document is medical advice and the review should confirm the page says so where it matters rather than only in a footer. Go to post

Ask what the page would look like if it were wrong. A document with no stated failure conditions is hard to review and harder to maintain.

18 likes in reply to #24 18mo
FP
f.piresTL229 Jan 2025 · edited#30

Everything in post #28 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

A review date is a commitment rather than a formality, and a shorter cycle for a fast-moving subject is the whole point of setting it deliberately.

0 likes 18mo