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Evidence · Study critique

Criticising the method without criticising the authors — one year on

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Solved by g.ibarra in post #8
Post #4 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Checked the Criticising the method without criticising claim against the primary source this morning. It survives, with a narrower scope than the version quoted here. Posting the narrower scope.

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KO
k.ogunleyeTL230 Apr 2025#1

On the subject in the title: Criticising the method without criticising the authors — one year on Working notes rather than a conclusion.

A methods question rather than a substantive one, about Criticising the method without criticising.

Everyone quotes the same figure and I cannot find anyone who says how it was arrived at. That is not an accusation; it usually means the derivation is somewhere obvious and I have missed it.

0 likes 15mo
SK
s.kimaniTL213 May 2025#2

What I can speak to on Criticising the method without criticising is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know.

1 like 15mo
JN
j.nwosuTL221 May 2025#3

The pre-specified endpoint being a weaker proxy than you would like is a real criticism. It is a smaller one than saying the result was chosen after the fact.

6 likes 14mo
AK
a.kowalskiTL229 May 2025#4

The opening post and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Multiple comparisons without adjustment is a defensible choice when declared in advance and a problem when discovered afterwards. The registry entry settles which happened.

I am confident about the direction and much less about the magnitude.

16 likes 14mo
SC
s.cardosoTL25 Jun 2025#5
j.nwosu, post #3: The pre-specified endpoint being a weaker proxy than you would like is a real criticism. It is a smaller one than saying the result was chosen after the fact. Go to post

A critique should end with what would change your mind. Without that it is a position rather than an argument.

If that is already documented somewhere, ignore me and link it.

31 likes in reply to #3 14mo
BP
b.petrovTL212 Jun 2025#6
MY
m.yilmazTL219 Jun 2025#7

Building on post #5 rather than restating it.

Reporting rather than recommending, on Criticising the method without criticising. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer.

3 likes 13mo
GI
g.ibarraTL2 Solution25 Jun 2025 · edited#8

Post #4 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Checked the Criticising the method without criticising claim against the primary source this morning. It survives, with a narrower scope than the version quoted here. Posting the narrower scope.

10 likes 13mo
FP
forest_plotTL3Evidence synthesis1 Jul 2025#9

Defending a design that is being criticised unfairly is as useful as criticising one that deserves it, and it happens far less often.

23 likes 13mo
NC
n.cardosoTL27 Jul 2025#10

I had written a reply contradicting post #8 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Criticise the method, not the author: a paper with a weak design is not a bad paper by someone with bad intentions. It is a paper that answers a limited question. Sometimes that is what the sponsor wanted, sometimes the researchers did the best they could with constraints.

0 likes 13mo
KC
k.chukwuTL213 Jul 2025#11

I read post #7 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Placebo-controlled versus active-controlled changes what a result means entirely, and comparing across the two is one of the most common errors in this subcategory.

I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this.

0 likes 13mo
IR
isotonic_reviewTL118 Jul 2025#12
HE
h.eriksenTL224 Jul 2025#13

Attrition is the failure mode most likely to invalidate a result and the least likely to be discussed. Differential attrition between arms is the specific thing to look for.

10 likes 12mo
ZL
z.laurentTL229 Jul 2025#14

Filing a mild objection to the consensus on Criticising the method without criticising. Mild because I might be wrong; an objection because nobody has addressed the case that does not fit.

3 likes 12mo
FL
f.laurentTL24 Aug 2025#15
a.kowalski, post #4: The opening post and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Multiple comparisons without adjustment is a defensible choice when declared in advance and a problem when discovered afterwards. The registry entry settles which happened. I am confident about the direction and much less about the magnitude. Go to post

Same experience here, different supplier, so it is at least not unique to one of them.

1 like in reply to #4 12mo
L
LundqvistTL2Member9 Aug 2025#16
k.ogunleye, post #1: On the subject in the title: Criticising the method without criticising the authors — one year on Working notes rather than a conclusion. A methods question rather than a substantive one, about Criticising the method without criticising. Everyone quotes the same figure and I cannot find anyone who says how it was arrived at. That is not… Go to post

Narrowing post #14, because the general version has more than one answer.

Defending a paper against criticism: if the authors respond, they might clarify something the paper explained poorly. Their response might also miss your point. Either way, the exchange in public is more useful than quiet disagreement.

That has held every time I have looked, which is not the same as always.

0 likes in reply to #1 12mo
KK
k.kimaniTL214 Aug 2025#17

Whatever the answer on Criticising the method without criticising turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction.

15 likes 11mo
SE
septum_entryTL2Member19 Aug 2025#18

Generalisability and validity are separate axes. A trial can be internally impeccable and still tell you nothing about the person asking.

I would be interested in a counterexample if anyone has one.

5 likes 11mo
DO
dr_okonkwoTL4 Moderator24 Aug 2025#19

What I want from this Criticising the method without criticising thread is the list of things that would need to be true for the claim to hold. If we can write that list, we can check it.

31 likes 11mo
CG
c.grimaldiTL229 Aug 2025#20

Adding a small correction to the Criticising the method without criticising summary above rather than a disagreement with it. The substance holds; one of the figures is out by a factor that matters.

16 likes 11mo
K
KForsbergTL2Member3 Sep 2025 · edited#21
k.chukwu, post #11: I read post #7 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Placebo-controlled versus active-controlled changes what a result means entirely, and comparing across the two is one of the most common errors in this subcategory. I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this. Go to post

Post #20 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Multiple comparisons: if a paper reports many outcomes, the chance of a spurious association by random chance is real. Pre-specification of primary outcomes matters and secondary analyses are weaker evidence.

0 likes in reply to #11 11mo
This topic was closed 60 days after the last reply. Closing is automatic for quiet topics so that a settled answer does not collect new questions underneath it. If you have a follow-up, open a new topic and link back to this one — that keeps both readable and gives your question its own title.

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