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Practice · Dosing & titration · continued

Micro-titration: a disputed topic, argued properly posts 61–90

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

PT
p.trevinoTL217 Apr 2026#61

Where I part company with post #57, and it is a narrow parting.

A missed dose in a weekly schedule is not a trough to chase. With a week-long half-life you are perturbing a slowly moving average, and the labelling for licensed products in this class says take it if the next dose is far enough away and skip it otherwise.

8 likes 3mo
IS
isotonic_sheetTL3Regular19 Apr 2026 · edited#62

Post #61 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Practical answer on micro-titration, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

2 likes 3mo
AZ
an.zamoraTL221 Apr 2026#63

The failure mode on micro-titration is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong.

0 likes 3mo
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RodriguesTL3Regular23 Apr 2026#64
n.haddad, post #24: Small methodological point on micro-titration: repeating a measurement is cheap and resolves most of what is being argued about here at no cost to anyone. Go to post

Thank you for the correction. I would rather find out here than later.

27 likes in reply to #24 3mo
YA
y.adeyemiTL225 Apr 2026#65
hana.sato, post #17: Confirming post #14 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. A titration plan written down in advance is easier to stick to and easier to abandon deliberately. An improvised one becomes a series of decisions made on the worst day of each week. The variance between people here is larger than the… Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #61 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Concentration and dose get conflated constantly in this subcategory. Changing how much diluent you add changes the volume you draw and changes nothing about the dose.

Adding the caveat now so it does not have to be extracted later.

13 likes in reply to #17 3mo
MM
maintenance_modeTL3Regular27 Apr 2026#66

Micro-titration: the concept of increments smaller than the labelled steps. It has no evidence base from trials but is described by some people. The downside is that very small increments are hard to measure accurately with a syringe.

Happy to be the one who is wrong here if it settles the question.

4 likes 3mo
HB
h.brandtTL229 Apr 2026#67

Micro-titration is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers.

0 likes 3mo
RV
r.venkatesanTL3Wiki editor2 May 2026#68
cannula_trace, post #32: Post #30 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Adding a reference point for micro-titration. Mine is a single case, collected without controls, and I am posting the method alongside it so it can be discounted appropriately. Go to post

I would call the community position on micro-titration likely rather than established, and I would be comfortable defending that hedge.

0 likes in reply to #32 3mo
SK
s.kuuselaTL24 May 2026#69

Concentration and dose get conflated constantly in this subcategory. Changing how much diluent you add changes the volume you draw and changes nothing about the dose.

Not the whole picture, but the part of it I can speak to.

2 likes 3mo
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batchlogTL3Regular6 May 2026#70

The question underneath micro-titration is usually "how would I tell?" rather than "what is true?", and that one has a method attached to it.

Write down what you would expect to see under each hypothesis before you collect anything. If they predict the same observation, collecting it will not help.

0 likes 3mo
MI
m.ibarraTL28 May 2026#71
g.haaland, post #20: Answering the question post #16 raises rather than the one it answers. Concentration and dose get conflated constantly in this subcategory. Changing how much diluent you add changes the volume you draw and changes nothing about the dose. Go to post

Building on post #68 rather than restating it.

A titration plan written down in advance is easier to stick to and easier to abandon deliberately. An improvised one becomes a series of decisions made on the worst day of each week.

14 likes in reply to #20 3mo
MH
ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist10 May 2026#72
sharps_bin, post #36: Micro-titration: the concept of increments smaller than the labelled steps. It has no evidence base from trials but is described by some people. The downside is that very small increments are hard to measure accurately with a syringe. Go to post

A note on scope: what I am saying about micro-titration applies to the case in the first post and I would not extend it further without checking.

29 likes in reply to #36 3mo
LS
l.salinasTL212 May 2026#73

I think the micro-titration question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

0 likes 3mo
SL
s.leclercTL4 Moderator14 May 2026 · edited#74

Everything in post #70 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Concentration and dose get conflated constantly in this subcategory. Changing how much diluent you add changes the volume you draw and changes nothing about the dose.

I would be glad to be shown a cleaner way of putting this.

2 likes 2mo
CC
ch.correiaTL216 May 2026#75

Building on post #72 rather than restating it.

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about micro-titration than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

20 likes 2mo
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TL4_HalvorsenTL4Leader · Journal club18 May 2026#76
ppm_error, post #30: The four-week escalation interval is a convention from the pivotal trials, not a pharmacological constant. The pharmacological argument is that with a week-long half-life, four weeks approaches steady state and you can assess the dose fairly. That is an argument for not going faster. It is not an argument against going slower. Go to post

On micro-titration, the part that usually goes wrong is that the question is asked as though it has one answer. It has a range, and the width of the range is the interesting bit.

If you can post the two or three numbers you are working from, several people here will check the arithmetic rather than argue about the conclusion.

0 likes in reply to #30 2mo
YA
y.adebayoTL220 May 2026#77

Escalating before steady state means you are judging a dose you have not yet fully experienced. That is the whole argument against compressing the schedule and it is a good one.

0 likes 2mo
EF
endo_fellow_rkTL3Endocrinology fellow22 May 2026#78

The most useful thing anyone has posted about micro-titration in this category was a table of what had been measured and by whom. That is what I would want again.

5 likes 2mo
MC
m.coelhoTL224 May 2026#79

An update on my earlier micro-titration post: the pattern held for another six weeks and then stopped, which I did not predict and cannot explain.

6 likes 2mo
BS
b.solbergTL226 May 2026#80
s.coelho, post #23: If symptoms reset at each step, that is the expected pattern rather than a sign that the previous adaptation was imaginary. Every dose increase is a new exposure. That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct. Go to post

Concentration and dose get conflated constantly in this subcategory. Changing how much diluent you add changes the volume you draw and changes nothing about the dose.

That is the honest state of it as of this week.

15 likes in reply to #23 2mo
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RodriguesTL3Regular29 May 2026#81

Micro-titration has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet.

32 likes 2mo
PT
p.trevinoTL231 May 2026#82

Post #79 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Reframing micro-titration slightly, because I think the disagreement is about the question rather than the answer. If the question is "does it happen", yes. If it is "how often", nobody here knows.

16 likes 2mo
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HadjipaterasTL1Member2 Jun 2026#83
cannula_notes, post #43: Good question, well framed, and I would like to see it answered properly. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #79 runs together.

A missed dose in a weekly schedule is not a trough to chase. With a week-long half-life you are perturbing a slowly moving average, and the labelling for licensed products in this class says take it if the next dose is far enough away and skip it otherwise.

Stating my assumptions rather than smuggling them in.

3 likes in reply to #43 2mo
JS
j.sandvikTL24 Jun 2026#84

Concentration and dose get conflated constantly in this subcategory. Changing how much diluent you add changes the volume you draw and changes nothing about the dose.

The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one.

0 likes 2mo
MD
methods_draftTL2Member6 Jun 2026#85

Micro-titration: the concept of increments smaller than the labelled steps. It has no evidence base from trials but is described by some people. The downside is that very small increments are hard to measure accurately with a syringe.

0 likes 2mo
KO
k.ogunleyeTL28 Jun 2026#86
ms_holloway, post #72: A note on scope: what I am saying about micro-titration applies to the case in the first post and I would not extend it further without checking. Go to post

Right, and stated more narrowly than I would have dared to state it.

23 likes in reply to #72 2mo
S
SHermansenTL2Member10 Jun 2026#87
VPoulsen, post #54: The documentation on micro-titration is better than this thread and I say that as someone who has posted in the thread. Go to post

Concentration and dose get conflated constantly in this subcategory. Changing how much diluent you add changes the volume you draw and changes nothing about the dose.

That is what the documentation says. What happens in practice is usually close.

6 likes in reply to #54 2mo
AZ
an.zamoraTL212 Jun 2026#88

Adding what did not work for me on micro-titration, since the failures never get written up and they are half the useful information.

1 like 2mo
CE
crossover_entryTL3Regular14 Jun 2026#89

Two sentences on micro-titration and then I will stop, because the rest is speculation and the thread is better without mine.

What is documented is narrow. What is inferred from it is broad. The gap between them is where every argument here lives.

0 likes 1mo
BW
br.wikstromTL216 Jun 2026#90

Writing down the date, the dose and the site each week takes fifteen seconds and is the single most useful record anyone here keeps. Memory reconstructs a titration history that never happened.

Happy to be corrected if someone holds better data than mine.

31 likes 1mo