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Clinical · Bloodwork · continued

Reference intervals: how they are constructed and why one in twenty flags posts 61–90

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

BA
b.aaltoTL28 Mar 2026#61

Reference intervals has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet.

31 likes 5mo
EL
e.lehtinenTL210 Mar 2026#62

Post #59 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Liver enzymes: elevation does not specify cause. ALT and AST can rise from many things. Bilirubin helps narrow down the cause. Multiple markers together are more informative than one alone.

16 likes 5mo
HF
h.ferrariTL212 Mar 2026 · edited#63
v.klausen, post #48: Reference intervals: constructed to contain the central 95% of a reference population, which means one in twenty healthy people falls outside one by definition. Add biological variation and analytical imprecision and the base rate of a meaningless flag is substantial. Go to post

Reference intervals are constructed to contain the central ninety-five per cent of a reference population, so one healthy person in twenty falls outside one by definition.

That is a description of practice, not a recommendation of it.

3 likes in reply to #48 5mo
RF
r.friskTL214 Mar 2026#64
k.roos, post #35: Taking post #34 at face value and following it one step further. Reference intervals was covered in the wiki last year and the page has a review date on it, which is a better starting point than my memory of a thread. Go to post

Something worth flagging about reference intervals: the strongest-sounding claims in this thread are the ones with no source attached, which is the usual pattern and not a coincidence.

0 likes in reply to #35 4mo
BN
bench_notesTL4 Moderator16 Mar 2026#65

I had written a reply contradicting post #63 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

An observation about reference intervals that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

0 likes 4mo
VB
v.baptistaTL218 Mar 2026#66

Confirming post #63 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Time of day: some biomarkers vary across the day. Cortisol in the morning differs from cortisol in the evening. Comparing results from different times of day is comparing things that are not the same.

It is a small point and it changes the answer, which is an awkward combination.

22 likes 4mo
KV
k.vanheckeTL220 Mar 2026#67

General information rather than advice about anyone's care. A single value outside a reference interval, on a single draw, in an otherwise unremarkable panel, is usually uninformative.

Not disagreeing with anyone above, just adding the bit I keep having to look up.

6 likes 4mo
KF
k.fonsecaTL221 Mar 2026#68
v.milanovi, post #44: Picking up post #41: that is the part I would want checked first. On reference intervals, the part that usually goes wrong is that the question is asked as though it has one answer. It has a range, and the width of the range is the interesting bit. If you can post the two or three numbers you are working from, several people here will… Go to post

Adding thanks rather than a view. I do not have a view worth the space.

1 like in reply to #44 4mo
NA
n.abernathyTL3Analytical chemist23 Mar 2026#69

A trend needs at least three points to be a trend. Two points are a line and a line through noise is still a line.

I have separated what I observed from what I concluded, which does not always happen.

0 likes 4mo
SM
s.mbekiTL225 Mar 2026#70

Two sentences on reference intervals and then I will stop, because the rest is speculation and the thread is better without mine.

What is documented is narrow. What is inferred from it is broad. The gap between them is where every argument here lives.

30 likes 4mo
RC
r.coelhoTL227 Mar 2026#71

The version of reference intervals that circulates here is a simplification of a simplification. It is not wrong, but it has lost the conditions under which it holds, and those conditions are where the interesting cases live.

0 likes 4mo
BP
bench_peakTL3Regular29 Mar 2026#72

Repeat before acting is standard practice for an isolated abnormal result on most analytes, and it is standard for a reason.

1 like 4mo
SO
s.oyelaranTL231 Mar 2026#73
l.ibarra, post #58: The reason reference intervals keeps being re-asked is that the answer is conditional and people quote it without the condition. It is not that the answer is unknown. Go to post

Post #70 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

I have no financial interest in anything named in this thread and I want to say so before I comment on reference intervals, because it is the sort of subject where it matters.

11 likes in reply to #58 4mo
O
OTeixeiraTL3Regular2 Apr 2026#74
j.hartmann, post #2: Adding a note of thanks rather than an opinion. I did not know most of that. Go to post

I read post #72 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Practical answer on reference intervals, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

24 likes in reply to #2 4mo
SO
s.okonkwoTL24 Apr 2026#75

Acknowledging rather than arguing. The reasoning holds as far as I can follow it.

33 likes 4mo
CD
cohort_driftTL3Regular6 Apr 2026#76

Glycaemic markers integrate over different periods. A point glucose and a longer-term marker disagreeing is not a contradiction; it is two different questions.

0 likes 4mo
TV
to.vargaTL28 Apr 2026#77
n.abernathy, post #69: A trend needs at least three points to be a trend. Two points are a line and a line through noise is still a line. I have separated what I observed from what I concluded, which does not always happen. Go to post

Post #74 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

The failure mode on reference intervals is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong.

7 likes in reply to #69 4mo
GH
g.haalandTL310 Apr 2026#78
SB
s.beaulieuTL211 Apr 2026#79

Post #77 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

A trend needs at least three points to be a trend. Two points are a line and a line through noise is still a line.

I have said this before in a thread nobody could find, so it is worth repeating.

1 like 4mo
J
JFitzgibbonTL2Member13 Apr 2026 · edited#80

Where I part company with post #76, and it is a narrow parting.

One more thing on reference intervals that took me far too long to see: the two figures people quote are not measuring the same quantity. Once you notice that, the apparent contradiction disappears.

6 likes 3mo
RV
r.villalobosTL215 Apr 2026#81

On post #77 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Taking reference intervals seriously for a moment rather than deflecting: the honest position is that the community has observations and no controlled comparison, and those two things support very different sentences.

0 likes 3mo
HF
h.ferrariTL217 Apr 2026#82

Time of day: some biomarkers vary across the day. Cortisol in the morning differs from cortisol in the evening. Comparing results from different times of day is comparing things that are not the same.

0 likes 3mo
KF
k.fonsecaTL219 Apr 2026#83
t.kulkarni, post #5: Reference intervals are constructed to contain the central ninety-five per cent of a reference population, so one healthy person in twenty falls outside one by definition. Filing this under things that are true until someone shows me otherwise. Go to post

Bringing the actual numbers with intervals to an appointment is far more useful than describing them, and clinicians here consistently say so.

17 likes in reply to #5 3mo
RD
r.danquahTL221 Apr 2026#84

The most useful thing this subcategory does is help people tell an interesting result from an uninteresting one before booking an appointment about it.

Marking that as an opinion rather than a finding.

7 likes 3mo
FF
f.fenwickTL3Regular23 Apr 2026#85

Reference intervals: constructed to contain the central 95% of a reference population, which means one in twenty healthy people falls outside one by definition. Add biological variation and analytical imprecision and the base rate of a meaningless flag is substantial.

1 like 3mo
AP
ar.petrovTL224 Apr 2026 · edited#86
a.stephanopoulos, post #42: The most useful thing this subcategory does is help people tell an interesting result from an uninteresting one before booking an appointment about it. Go to post

My experience of reference intervals contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.

0 likes in reply to #42 3mo
RF
r.friskTL226 Apr 2026#87

Marking my uncertainty on reference intervals explicitly. I am confident about the direction, much less confident about the size, and not confident at all that it generalises past the case in the first post.

24 likes 3mo
LA
l.aguirreTL228 Apr 2026#88

Post #85 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Glycaemic markers integrate over different periods. A point glucose and a longer-term marker disagreeing is not a contradiction; it is two different questions.

The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one.

11 likes 3mo
DI
diluent_indexTL1Member30 Apr 2026#89

Understood. Thank you for being specific about the limits of it.

0 likes 3mo
ON
o.nybergTL22 May 2026#90
k.brandl_de, post #54: Post #50 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. Glycaemic markers integrate over different periods. A point glucose and a longer-term marker disagreeing is not a contradiction; it is two different questions. Written quickly, so the reasoning may be tighter than the wording. Go to post

Taking post #88 at face value and following it one step further.

Comparing results across laboratories is harder than it looks because reference intervals and methods differ. The same sample can produce different numbers and different flags.

That is one dataset and I would not build a rule on it.

18 likes in reply to #54 3mo