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Evidence · Trials · continued

Trial registration and comparing the protocol with the paper posts 31–45

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

SC
s.chowdhuryTL3Regular20 Aug 2025#31

Confounding in observational data: a third variable can explain an apparent association. In a randomised trial, randomisation balances unknown confounders. In observational data, observed confounders can be adjusted for but unknown ones cannot.

I am aware this is the third time this month I have made this point.

3 likes 11mo
AA
a.adeyemiTL224 Aug 2025#32
QL
quiet_lurkerTL2Regular27 Aug 2025 · edited#33

Building on post #30 rather than restating it.

A trial that answers a slightly different question from the one you have is the normal situation rather than a failure of the trial. The skill is describing the gap precisely.

31 likes 11mo
AN
a.nybergTL231 Aug 2025#34
quiet_lurker, post #33: Building on post #30 rather than restating it. A trial that answers a slightly different question from the one you have is the normal situation rather than a failure of the trial. The skill is describing the gap precisely. Go to post

Post #33 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Nothing in a trial report is medical advice about an individual, and the gap between a population estimate and a person is exactly where clinical judgement lives.

0 likes in reply to #33 11mo
AP
asking_properlyTL1Member4 Sep 2025#35

Practical note on trial registration: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow.

1 like 11mo
GB
g.bakkenTL27 Sep 2025#36

Trial duration determines what can be observed. A weight-change trajectory at 40 weeks and at 72 weeks are different observations and both get quoted as the result.

6 likes 11mo
ST
sterile_tableTL3Regular11 Sep 2025#37
s.chowdhury, post #31: Confounding in observational data: a third variable can explain an apparent association. In a randomised trial, randomisation balances unknown confounders. In observational data, observed confounders can be adjusted for but unknown ones cannot. I am aware this is the third time this month I have made this point. Go to post

Taking post #34 at face value and following it one step further.

Generalisability: the enrolled population was selected in ways that matter. Entry criteria, run-in periods, and the simple fact that people who agree to a multi-year trial differ from people who do not, all narrow the population. That is how internal validity is bought, at the cost of external validity.

That is where I would start, not where I would stop.

23 likes in reply to #31 11mo
YE
y.eriksenTL214 Sep 2025#38
r.villalobos, post #3: Trial duration determines what can be observed. A weight-change trajectory at 40 weeks and at 72 weeks are different observations and both get quoted as the result. The literature is thinner on this than the confidence in the thread implies. Go to post

The first question about any trial is what it set out to estimate, not what it found. Once the estimand is on the table the rest of the discussion is tractable.

Happy to be the one who is wrong here if it settles the question.

0 likes in reply to #3 10mo
MH
ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist18 Sep 2025#39

Registration before enrolment, with the primary endpoint declared, is what makes outcome switching detectable. Checking the registry against the paper takes five minutes and is worth doing.

10 likes 10mo
EI
e.iyerTL221 Sep 2025#40

I read post #36 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Safety findings from a trial powered for efficacy are underpowered by construction. Absence of a signal in that setting is weak evidence of absence.

22 likes 10mo
GV
g.verhoevenTL225 Sep 2025#41

What I can speak to on trial registration is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know.

1 like 10mo
Z
ZieglerTL3Regular28 Sep 2025#42

Adding a note of thanks rather than an opinion. I did not know most of that.

0 likes 10mo
AP
ar.petrovTL22 Oct 2025#43
g.verhoeven, post #10: Picking up post #8: that is the part I would want checked first. A comparator at less than its maximum licensed dose changes what a head-to-head result means. It does not invalidate the trial; it narrows the claim the trial supports. Go to post

Coming back to post #41, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

An open-label trial is not worthless and its subjective endpoints deserve more scepticism than its objective ones. That is a graded judgement rather than a verdict.

24 likes in reply to #10 10mo
RS
r.scholtenTL2Member5 Oct 2025#44

The figure that circulates in coverage is almost always whichever estimand gives the larger effect. That is not fraud; it is selection, and it is why the paper matters more than the summary.

That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category.

11 likes 10mo
ZV
z.vogelTL29 Oct 2025#45

On post #41 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Entry criteria, run-in periods and the self-selection of people willing to enter a multi-year trial all narrow the population. That is how internal validity is bought and it constrains generalisation.

3 likes 10mo

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