The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Meta · Wiki maintenance

A revision dispute resolved on the topic rather than in the history — a second dataset

Solved
Solved by in.guerrero in post #2
Revision disputes: if you disagree with an edit a maintainer made, discussing it here invites resolution rather than conflict. I have written this out at length because the short version keeps being misread.

Jump to the accepted answer →

FP
forest_plotTL3Evidence synthesis1 Oct 2024#1

On the subject in the title: A revision dispute resolved on the topic rather than in the history — a second dataset Working notes rather than a conclusion.

Posting a small dataset on revision dispute resolved. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the method is stated so it can be discounted appropriately.

What I would like is not agreement but a second dataset collected by someone with no stake in mine. If one exists I would rather read it than argue for this one.

57 likes 22mo
IG
in.guerreroTL2 Solution4 Oct 2024 · edited#2

Revision disputes: if you disagree with an edit a maintainer made, discussing it here invites resolution rather than conflict.

I have written this out at length because the short version keeps being misread.

7 likes 22mo
R
RidgewayTL3Regular6 Oct 2024#3
in.guerrero, post #2: Revision disputes: if you disagree with an edit a maintainer made, discussing it here invites resolution rather than conflict. I have written this out at length because the short version keeps being misread. Go to post

Understood, and I withdraw the assumption I opened with.

3 likes in reply to #2 22mo
ID
i.dumitruTL27 Oct 2024#4

Proposing an edit rather than making one, because it changes a number. The figure in the third paragraph is right for the licensed formulation and is being read as general. I would add four words scoping it.

10 likes 22mo
LA
l.aaltonenTL3Regular9 Oct 2024#5

Flagging a stale cross-reference. This page links to a topic that was later promoted into its own document, so the link now goes to the discussion rather than the maintained version. Worth repointing.

0 likes 22mo
JC
j.castellanosTL211 Oct 2024#6
Ridgeway, post #3: Understood, and I withdraw the assumption I opened with. Go to post

Agreed. The revision notes are the only history a reader gets, so they are part of the document rather than metadata about it.

1 like in reply to #3 22mo
HN
h.nicolaidesTL3Regular12 Oct 2024#7

Narrowing post #6, because the general version has more than one answer.

Revision dispute resolved is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers.

6 likes 22mo
CV
ca.vermeulenTL214 Oct 2024#8

Everything in post #4 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

I would call the community position on revision dispute resolved likely rather than established, and I would be comfortable defending that hedge.

15 likes 21mo
EK
e.kuuselaTL215 Oct 2024#9

Confirming post #6 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

The convention is to label them explicitly as community practice in the sentence. It is not always applied, and where it is not, that is a defect rather than a style choice.

If anyone can point at the primary source I would be grateful.

16 likes 21mo
C
chromatogramTL4Analytical chemist16 Oct 2024#10

I had written a reply contradicting post #8 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

The honest answer on revision dispute resolved is that it depends, and the useful part is the list of what it depends on. Four items, in rough order of how much they matter.

Most people get the first two right and then argue about the fourth.

32 likes 21mo
OB
owen.bradyTL4 Moderator18 Oct 2024#11
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

That is the most useful kind of report and the hardest to notice. Both maintainers have been asked to agree a single definition rather than each defending their own, and whatever they agree goes in the glossary.

1 like 21mo
AI
a.ibarraTL219 Oct 2024#12

Since revision dispute resolved keeps coming up, it should probably be a maintained page rather than a recurring thread. I am happy to draft it if someone with more direct experience will review it.

0 likes 21mo
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist20 Oct 2024#13

Small structural suggestion: the worked examples belong before the general statement rather than after it. Everyone I have watched use this page scrolls straight to the example and reads upward.

Noting that I have skin in this question and have tried to discount for it.

17 likes 21mo
CT
c.tullochTL221 Oct 2024#14
i.dumitru, post #4: Proposing an edit rather than making one, because it changes a number. The figure in the third paragraph is right for the licensed formulation and is being read as general. I would add four words scoping it. Go to post

Confirming post #11 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Reporting an inconsistency between two maintained pages rather than an error in either. They use the same term for different quantities, and both are internally coherent.

Adding the caveat now so it does not have to be extracted later.

7 likes in reply to #4 21mo
VS
v.szaboTL3Analytical chemist23 Oct 2024 · edited#15

One more thing on revision dispute resolved that took me far too long to see: the two figures people quote are not measuring the same quantity. Once you notice that, the apparent contradiction disappears.

0 likes 21mo
HV
h.vargaTL224 Oct 2024#16

Summarising the revision dispute resolved thread so far, since it is long and the answer is buried: the first reply has the method, the fourth has the correction to it, and the rest is people agreeing at length.

0 likes 21mo
PM
physio_marchettiTL2Physiotherapist25 Oct 2024#17

Where I part company with post #15, and it is a narrow parting.

Requesting a review date change rather than a content change. This page is being read far more than it was and the annual cycle is now too slow for it.

Speaking for myself and not for anyone else who has posted here.

12 likes 21mo
NO
n.oseiTL226 Oct 2024#18
j.castellanos, post #6: Agreed. The revision notes are the only history a reader gets, so they are part of the document rather than metadata about it. Go to post

That is a cleaner way of putting what I was circling around.

4 likes in reply to #6 21mo
JM
j.mwangiTL4 Moderator27 Oct 2024#19
i.dumitru, post #4: Proposing an edit rather than making one, because it changes a number. The figure in the third paragraph is right for the licensed formulation and is being read as general. I would add four words scoping it. Go to post
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

Repointed, and thank you. That failure mode is common enough after a promotion that it should probably be part of the promotion checklist rather than something we catch by reading.

Written in the hope of being told what I have missed.

0 likes in reply to #4 21mo
K
KnowltonTL3Regular29 Oct 2024#20

The arithmetic in post #19 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Question for the editors: what is the standard for adding a citation to a claim that is community practice rather than published? At the moment those sentences are unmarked and read as though they were sourced.

The variance between people here is larger than the effect being discussed.

25 likes 21mo
NN
n.nybergTL230 Oct 2024 · edited#21
forest_plot, post #1: On the subject in the title: A revision dispute resolved on the topic rather than in the history — a second dataset Working notes rather than a conclusion. Posting a small dataset on revision dispute resolved. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the method is stated so it can be discounted appropriately. What I would like is not… Go to post

Volunteering for the review on this one. I use it monthly, I have a list of three things that have aged badly, and I am willing to be named as the second maintainer.

0 likes in reply to #1 21mo
TP
t.pereiraTL231 Oct 2024#22

Post #19 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Housekeeping: three documents now carry the same paragraph verbatim because it was copied rather than linked. One of them should hold it and the other two should point at it.

3 likes 21mo
K
KLindqvistTL4 Moderator1 Nov 2024#23
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

Maintenance note. This document is due for review and the maintainer has asked for a second reader before the date rather than after it. If you use this page regularly, this is the moment your objection is cheapest to act on.

That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct.

11 likes 21mo
CG
c.grimaldiTL22 Nov 2024#24
physio_marchetti, post #17: Where I part company with post #15, and it is a narrow parting. Requesting a review date change rather than a content change. This page is being read far more than it was and the annual cycle is now too slow for it. Speaking for myself and not for anyone else who has posted here. Go to post

That matches how I use it. The general statement is what you check afterwards, not what you arrive for.

I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this.

23 likes in reply to #17 21mo
DO
dr_okonkwoTL4 Moderator3 Nov 2024#25
KLindqvist, post #23: Maintenance note. This document is due for review and the maintainer has asked for a second reader before the date rather than after it. If you use this page regularly, this is the moment your objection is cheapest to act on. That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct. Go to post

Support the scoping edit. A number in a maintained document gets quoted without its context roughly forever, so the context has to be inside the sentence rather than in the paragraph above it.

Take the reasoning and check the arithmetic; I do not always get it right.

1 like in reply to #23 21mo
JF
j.fonsecaTL24 Nov 2024#26

Helpful, and short, which on this subject is harder than long.

6 likes 21mo
PW
PharmNotes_WhitfieldTL4Pharmacist5 Nov 2024#27

Confirming post #24 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Checked the revision dispute resolved claim against the primary source this morning. It survives, with a narrower scope than the version quoted here. Posting the narrower scope.

16 likes 21mo
NK
n.kuuselaTL26 Nov 2024#28

I read the earlier replies on revision dispute resolved twice before writing this, because I had assumed the opposite and wanted to be sure I was disagreeing with what was said rather than what I expected.

31 likes 21mo
OO
orbitrap_olaTL3Mass spectrometrist7 Nov 2024#29
c.grimaldi, post #24: That matches how I use it. The general statement is what you check afterwards, not what you arrive for. I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this. Go to post

This follows post #28 rather than contradicting it.

Careful with that. A short duplicated paragraph is sometimes better than a link, because the reader who needs it is mid-task and will not follow a link. The test is whether it can drift out of step.

The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one.

32 likes in reply to #24 21mo
PM
p.mwangiTL28 Nov 2024#30
in.guerrero, post #2: Revision disputes: if you disagree with an edit a maintainer made, discussing it here invites resolution rather than conflict. I have written this out at length because the short version keeps being misread. Go to post

The arithmetic on revision dispute resolved is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it.

0 likes in reply to #2 21mo