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Analytics · Mass spectrometry

Coming back to: Oxidation and deamidation mass shifts, tabulated

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HF
h.ferrariTL228 Mar 2025#1

Oxidation and deamidation mass shifts, tabulated — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

Reading back through what has been written here about Oxidation and deamidation mass shifts, three questions come up every time and only one has ever been answered properly.

Listing all three, with what I think the state of the answer is for each, so the thread can start further along than the last one did.

36 likes 16mo
SL
s.lundgrenTL28 Apr 2025#2

Adding the measurement that the opening post says would settle it.

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

I looked this up rather than remembered it, which is the right order.

8 likes 16mo
AD
ambient_draftTL3Regular16 Apr 2025#3

A mass match establishes that the measured mass is consistent with the proposed composition. It does not establish purity, sequence order, or the absence of an isomer, and all three are frequently claimed from it.

If it helps: the failure mode here is usually boring rather than dramatic.

2 likes 15mo
AK
ak.kravchenkoTL222 Apr 2025#4

That is clearer than the version I had in my head. Thank you.

0 likes 15mo
TI
trough_indexTL3Regular29 Apr 2025#5

Monoisotopic and average mass are different numbers and both appear on documents. At this molecular weight the difference is a few daltons, which is more than the tolerance being claimed.

13 likes 15mo
AN
a.norgaardTL25 May 2025#6
ambient_draft, post #3: A mass match establishes that the measured mass is consistent with the proposed composition. It does not establish purity, sequence order, or the absence of an isomer, and all three are frequently claimed from it. If it helps: the failure mode here is usually boring rather than dramatic. Go to post

Picking up post #3: that is the part I would want checked first.

Positional isomers and epimers are mass-identical. Any argument that a mass result rules them out is wrong, and it is the commonest overclaim in this subcategory.

5 likes in reply to #3 15mo
NB
n.bridgewaterTL2Member10 May 2025 · edited#7
h.ferrari, post #1: Oxidation and deamidation mass shifts, tabulated — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Reading back through what has been written here about Oxidation and deamidation mass shifts, three questions come up every time and only one has ever been answered properly. Listing all three, with what I think the… Go to post

Coming back to post #3, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Adducts — sodium and potassium especially — shift the observed mass in predictable increments. A report showing an unexplained plus twenty-two is usually showing you a sodium adduct.

0 likes in reply to #1 15mo
NL
ne.laurentTL216 May 2025#8

Tandem mass spectrometry with fragmentation gives sequence information that intact mass cannot. It is the analysis that would actually confirm identity, and it is rarely supplied.

Same conclusion as the reply above, reached differently, which is mildly reassuring.

0 likes 14mo
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BDraganovTL2Member21 May 2025#9
ambient_draft, post #3: A mass match establishes that the measured mass is consistent with the proposed composition. It does not establish purity, sequence order, or the absence of an isomer, and all three are frequently claimed from it. If it helps: the failure mode here is usually boring rather than dramatic. Go to post

Deamidation adds approximately one dalton and produces a species that frequently elutes very close to the parent. It is the hardest common impurity to see chromatographically and the easiest to see by mass.

That holds for the case as described. Change the assumptions and it may not.

0 likes in reply to #3 14mo
TM
t.marchettiTL226 May 2025#10
s.lundgren, post #2: Adding the measurement that the opening post says would settle it. Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass. I… Go to post

Oxidation adds sixteen per oxygen and is the most common modification seen in aged material. Its presence in the spectrum is informative about handling as well as synthesis.

I would be interested in a counterexample if anyone has one.

18 likes in reply to #2 14mo
YA
y.adeyemiTL231 May 2025#11
h.ferrari, post #1: Oxidation and deamidation mass shifts, tabulated — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Reading back through what has been written here about Oxidation and deamidation mass shifts, three questions come up every time and only one has ever been answered properly. Listing all three, with what I think the… Go to post

The arithmetic in post #8 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Sample preparation for mass spectrometry can itself introduce modifications, particularly oxidation. A finding at trace level may be telling you about the preparation rather than the material.

24 likes in reply to #1 14mo
AT
a.thorneTL2Wiki editor5 Jun 2025#12

Combining a chromatographic result with a mass result is genuinely orthogonal confirmation. Either alone leaves a specific class of problem invisible, and the two classes do not overlap much.

0 likes 14mo
GR
g.radichTL210 Jun 2025#13
JR
j.rasmussenTL2Regular15 Jun 2025 · edited#14

Noted, and thank you for writing it out rather than summarising it.

7 likes 13mo
CC
c.chowdhuryTL219 Jun 2025#15
ambient_draft, post #3: A mass match establishes that the measured mass is consistent with the proposed composition. It does not establish purity, sequence order, or the absence of an isomer, and all three are frequently claimed from it. If it helps: the failure mode here is usually boring rather than dramatic. Go to post

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

17 likes in reply to #3 13mo
TY
two_year_lineTL3Regular24 Jun 2025#16
a.norgaard, post #6: Picking up post #3: that is the part I would want checked first. Positional isomers and epimers are mass-identical. Any argument that a mass result rules them out is wrong, and it is the commonest overclaim in this subcategory. Go to post

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

I have no interest in any supplier named above.

33 likes in reply to #6 13mo
DF
d.ferreiraTL229 Jun 2025#17

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

I have deliberately not rounded that, because the rounding is where the argument starts.

0 likes 13mo
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batchlogTL33 Jul 2025#18
IA
id.almeidaTL27 Jul 2025#19

Mass error in parts per million is (observed minus theoretical) divided by theoretical, times a million. On a high-resolution instrument a low single-digit figure is unremarkable and expected.

This is the sort of thing that ought to be settled and apparently is not.

11 likes 13mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician12 Jul 2025#20
t.marchetti, post #10: Oxidation adds sixteen per oxygen and is the most common modification seen in aged material. Its presence in the spectrum is informative about handling as well as synthesis. I would be interested in a counterexample if anyone has one. Go to post

I read post #19 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible.

This is the sort of thing the wiki should carry and currently does not.

25 likes in reply to #10 13mo
JS
j.steinerTL216 Jul 2025#21

Worth separating two things that post #19 runs together.

Response in electrospray is not proportional to abundance across different species. Using peak intensities from a mass spectrum to estimate proportions is a mistake that looks reasonable.

I would put the burden of proof on the interesting explanation, not the dull one.

22 likes 12mo
KR
k.radichTL220 Jul 2025#22

An acylated peptide has a mass that reflects the modification, so comparing against the mass of the unmodified backbone gives a mismatch that is not an error.

A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations.

9 likes 12mo
HM
h.mbekiTL225 Jul 2025#23

For a compound with no reference standard in circulation, an observed mass is much more useful than an assertion of agreement with a theoretical value nobody can check.

1 like 12mo
BS
b.solbergTL229 Jul 2025#24
ak.kravchenko, post #4: That is clearer than the version I had in my head. Thank you. Go to post

Post #23 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

The honest summary of what a mass result buys you: it narrows the field of what the material could be, considerably. It never closes it, and no certificate should be read as though it had.

0 likes in reply to #4 12mo
NS
n.silvaTL22 Aug 2025#25

Noted, and I have changed what I was going to do on the strength of it.

29 likes 12mo
SL
s.leclercTL4 Moderator6 Aug 2025#26

Sample preparation for mass spectrometry can itself introduce modifications, particularly oxidation. A finding at trace level may be telling you about the preparation rather than the material.

That is one dataset and I would not build a rule on it.

14 likes 12mo
LS
l.salinasTL210 Aug 2025#27

Everything in post #23 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

2 likes 12mo
AR
a.reyesTL4 Admin14 Aug 2025#28
ne.laurent, post #8: Tandem mass spectrometry with fragmentation gives sequence information that intact mass cannot. It is the analysis that would actually confirm identity, and it is rarely supplied. Same conclusion as the reply above, reached differently, which is mildly reassuring. Go to post

Narrowing post #27, because the general version has more than one answer.

Trifluoroacetate adducts are common in material purified with TFA and are one reason a mass spectrum from a peptide can look busier than expected.

The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one.

0 likes in reply to #8 11mo
CD
cannula_driftTL318 Aug 2025#29
SV
sa.vogelTL222 Aug 2025 · edited#30

Mass error in parts per million is (observed minus theoretical) divided by theoretical, times a million. On a high-resolution instrument a low single-digit figure is unremarkable and expected.

21 likes 11mo