The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Evidence · Meta-analyses

Follow-up: Individual participant data versus aggregate data

HD
h.delgadoTL27 Jan 2025#1

Individual participant data versus aggregate data — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

A follow-up question about Individual participant data versus aggregate that I did not know to ask the first time.

The earlier thread answered what I asked. What I should have asked is below, and I think it is the one that matters.

26 likes 19mo
AP
ar.petrovTL27 Jan 2025#2

Individual participant data versus aggregate is well covered in the tag pages, and the older discussions are better than the recent ones because they were argued out properly. Worth twenty minutes before adding to this one.

5 likes 19mo
RS
r.scholtenTL2Member7 Jan 2025#3
h.delgado, post #1: Individual participant data versus aggregate data — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. A follow-up question about Individual participant data versus aggregate that I did not know to ask the first time. The earlier thread answered what I asked. What I should have asked is below, and I think it is the one… Go to post

Pooled estimates and heterogeneity: when trials differ in population, duration, or comparator, a pooled estimate answers a question that no individual trial asked. High heterogeneity means effects genuinely differ across studies. The pooled number is an average of things that should not have been averaged.

0 likes in reply to #1 19mo
GV
g.verhoevenTL27 Jan 2025#4

Adding the measurement that post #3 says would settle it.

What I would want before treating Individual participant data versus aggregate as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing.

0 likes 19mo
RV
r.villalobosTL27 Jan 2025#5

I had written a reply contradicting post #3 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Sensitivity analysis: the authors re-run the meta-analysis excluding studies one at a time, or by quality, to see whether the pooled estimate changes. Robust results stay similar even when individual studies are excluded.

I would be interested in a counterexample if anyone has one.

9 likes 19mo
OV
o.vogelTL27 Jan 2025#6

If someone has run Individual participant data versus aggregate properly I would rather read that than my own reconstruction of it. Posting mine only because the thread has gone quiet.

2 likes 19mo
MD
m.duarteTL27 Jan 2025#7
r.scholten, post #3: Pooled estimates and heterogeneity: when trials differ in population, duration, or comparator, a pooled estimate answers a question that no individual trial asked. High heterogeneity means effects genuinely differ across studies. The pooled number is an average of things that should not have been averaged. Go to post

Marking my uncertainty on Individual participant data versus aggregate explicitly. I am confident about the direction, much less confident about the size, and not confident at all that it generalises past the case in the first post.

0 likes in reply to #3 19mo
NN
n.norgaardTL27 Jan 2025#8

Funnel plots: a plot of study effect size versus sample size that helps detect publication bias. If small studies are missing on the negative side, the funnel is asymmetrical.

29 likes 19mo
GL
glossary_lineTL1Member8 Jan 2025#9
r.villalobos, post #5: I had written a reply contradicting post #3 and deleted it. Here is what survived. Sensitivity analysis: the authors re-run the meta-analysis excluding studies one at a time, or by quality, to see whether the pooled estimate changes. Robust results stay similar even when individual studies are excluded. I would be interested in a… Go to post

The practical version of Individual participant data versus aggregate is three sentences long. The rigorous version is three pages and reaches the same conclusion with the conditions attached.

27 likes in reply to #5 19mo
CV
ca.vermeulenTL28 Jan 2025#10
g.verhoeven, post #4: Adding the measurement that post #3 says would settle it. What I would want before treating Individual participant data versus aggregate as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing. Go to post

Taking post #7 at face value and following it one step further.

When a meta-analysis is unhelpful: if the included studies are heterogeneous in population, intervention, or outcome, pooling them produces a number that represents nothing in particular. Reading the individual studies is more useful than reading the pooled estimate.

I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this.

13 likes in reply to #4 19mo
ZS
z.szaboTL28 Jan 2025#11

Post #8 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Reframing Individual participant data versus aggregate slightly, because I think the disagreement is about the question rather than the answer. If the question is "does it happen", yes. If it is "how often", nobody here knows.

20 likes 19mo
KR
k.redgraveTL2Member8 Jan 2025#12
r.villalobos, post #5: I had written a reply contradicting post #3 and deleted it. Here is what survived. Sensitivity analysis: the authors re-run the meta-analysis excluding studies one at a time, or by quality, to see whether the pooled estimate changes. Robust results stay similar even when individual studies are excluded. I would be interested in a… Go to post

Coming back to post #10, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

The documentation on Individual participant data versus aggregate is better than this thread and I say that as someone who has posted in the thread.

0 likes in reply to #5 19mo
FH
f.haddadTL28 Jan 2025#13

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

0 likes 19mo
ER
eire_readerTL28 Jan 2025#14
ZC
z.cardosoTL28 Jan 2025#15

Post #12 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Second-hand on Individual participant data versus aggregate, so weight it accordingly — someone whose method I trust told me this and I have not verified it myself.

14 likes 19mo
PN
p.novotnyTL2Regular8 Jan 2025#16
n.norgaard, post #8: Funnel plots: a plot of study effect size versus sample size that helps detect publication bias. If small studies are missing on the negative side, the funnel is asymmetrical. Go to post

Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified.

28 likes in reply to #8 19mo
IL
i.lehtinenTL28 Jan 2025 · edited#17

I came in to disagree and I am leaving without a disagreement.

0 likes 19mo
UC
unit_conversionTL3Regular8 Jan 2025#18

Offering a way to settle Individual participant data versus aggregate rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision.

2 likes 19mo
ES
e.steinerTL28 Jan 2025#19

The reason Individual participant data versus aggregate is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent.

9 likes 19mo
QZ
q.zhao_qaTL3Quality assurance8 Jan 2025#20

When trials differ in population, duration and comparator, the pooled estimate answers a question no individual trial asked. That is worth saying before the number is quoted.

If this contradicts something upthread, the upthread version may well be the better one.

21 likes 19mo
DM
d.moreauTL2Regular8 Jan 2025#21
e.steiner, post #19: The reason Individual participant data versus aggregate is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent. Go to post

Individual participant data versus aggregate: I have looked for the primary source twice and failed twice. Either it does not exist or it is somewhere I do not know to look, and I would like to know which.

0 likes in reply to #19 19mo
RL
r.lundgrenTL28 Jan 2025 · edited#22

Posting my Individual participant data versus aggregate numbers with the method attached so they can be discounted properly. Uncontrolled, unblinded, and collected by someone who wanted a particular answer.

24 likes 19mo
OL
o.lindgrenTL2Regular8 Jan 2025#23

Post #19 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified.

7 likes 19mo
NC
n.cardosoTL28 Jan 2025#24

Reading rather than contributing, but this is the most useful thread I have found on it.

1 like 19mo
KB
k.brandl_deTL3Translator · DE8 Jan 2025#25
h.delgado, post #1: Individual participant data versus aggregate data — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. A follow-up question about Individual participant data versus aggregate that I did not know to ask the first time. The earlier thread answered what I asked. What I should have asked is below, and I think it is the one… Go to post

Individual participant data pooling is a much stronger design than aggregate pooling and is rare because it requires cooperation rather than a search.

Somebody will have a better source than mine, and I hope they post it.

0 likes in reply to #1 19mo
MA
m.almeidaTL28 Jan 2025#26
q.zhao_qa, post #20: When trials differ in population, duration and comparator, the pooled estimate answers a question no individual trial asked. That is worth saying before the number is quoted. If this contradicts something upthread, the upthread version may well be the better one. Go to post

On Individual participant data versus aggregate the community has more anecdote than the confidence in this thread implies, and I include my own contribution in that.

32 likes in reply to #20 19mo
AK
a.kowalczykTL28 Jan 2025#27
YI
y.ibarraTL29 Jan 2025#28

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

It is worth stating the boring hypothesis before the interesting one.

3 likes 19mo
MS
m.strand_rphTL3Pharmacist9 Jan 2025 · edited#29

Reading back through, this was answered upthread and I missed it. My fault.

1 like 19mo
DE
d.eriksenTL29 Jan 2025#30
z.cardoso, post #15: Post #12 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Second-hand on Individual participant data versus aggregate, so weight it accordingly — someone whose method I trust told me this and I have not verified it myself. Go to post

Adding the measurement that post #28 says would settle it.

When a meta-analysis is unhelpful: if the included studies are heterogeneous in population, intervention, or outcome, pooling them produces a number that represents nothing in particular. Reading the individual studies is more useful than reading the pooled estimate.

0 likes in reply to #15 19mo