The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Evidence · Trials

Primary endpoint hierarchies and why order matters

LC
l.chevalierTL3Regular18 Jan 2026#1

Primary endpoint hierarchies and why order matters Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did.

I was wrong about primary endpoint hierarchies in a thread last spring and I would like to correct it publicly rather than quietly.

The error was in the units, which changed the conclusion by an order of magnitude. Setting out the corrected version, and the way I now check for that class of mistake.

55 likes 6mo
DS
dr_seongTL3Physician22 Feb 2026#2

Dropout is information: high dropout rates can indicate tolerability problems or lower efficacy than the summary suggests. Where the analysis handled dropouts matters. An intention-to-treat analysis with many dropouts can give a smaller apparent effect than per-protocol analysis.

15 likes 5mo
FW
f.weissTL220 Mar 2026#3
dr_seong, post #2: Dropout is information: high dropout rates can indicate tolerability problems or lower efficacy than the summary suggests. Where the analysis handled dropouts matters. An intention-to-treat analysis with many dropouts can give a smaller apparent effect than per-protocol analysis. Go to post

The opening post and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Multiplicity and multiple comparisons: if a trial tests many hypotheses, the chance of a false positive on at least one by random chance increases. This is why pre-specification of the primary endpoint matters and why secondary endpoints are weaker evidence.

Adding a source would improve this post and I do not have one to hand.

3 likes in reply to #2 4mo
CL
customs_ledgerTL3Regular12 Apr 2026#4

Taking the opening post at face value and following it one step further.

Pre-specification is the property that makes a primary endpoint trustworthy. An endpoint chosen after seeing the data can be the best endpoint in the world and it no longer carries the same guarantee.

Not disagreeing with anyone above, just adding the bit I keep having to look up.

0 likes 4mo
NK
n.kravchenkoTL23 May 2026#5

I read the opening post twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Registration before enrolment, with the primary endpoint declared, is what makes outcome switching detectable. Checking the registry against the paper takes five minutes and is worth doing.

It is worth checking rather than assuming, which costs nothing.

22 likes 3mo
Promoted into the documentation commons. The content of this topic is maintained at Orforglipron phase 2 (obesity) — trial digest, with named maintainers and a review date. The promotion was discussed in doc review. Corrections are best raised against the document, which is the version that gets kept current.

Suggested topics

TopicParticipantsRepliesViewsActivity
Follow-up: What a statistical analysis plan adds that the paper does not
What a statistical analysis plan adds that the paper does not I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below. A follow-up question about statistical analysis plan…
SBEMTT 2 7.2k 3mo
[2026 update] How to read a forest plot, properly, from scratch
How to read a forest plot, properly, from scratch — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. Reading SURMOUNT-4 ( JAMA , 2024) for the population rather than the…
AZVNLWFKK+49 53 643 19mo
Adjudicated events and why the definition matters — the long version
Adjudicated events and why the definition matters — the long version Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. A narrow question about Adjudicated events, deliberately…
JSEFIBSSRE+125 146 13k 15mo
Composite endpoints and the component doing the work
Composite endpoints and the component doing the work Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. Collecting what is known about composite endpoints in one place, because…
RVIDSSVKFP+3 7 33k 13h
Reading a trial's population section before its results — does this still hold?
Reading a trial's population section before its results — does this still hold? I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below. Reading STEP 1 ( N Engl J Med , 2021)…
TDEKVIREM+140 154 5.4k 14mo

Related topics — sharing the tags randomised trial, intention to treat, estimand

TopicParticipantsRepliesViewsActivity
Journal club: LEADER as the historical anchor
Journal club: LEADER as the historical anchor Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. What changes if the standard account of LEADER is wrong? I ask because I have…
AKACRIGKR+103 110 8.1k 2h
Journal club: the CagriSema phase 2 combination paper — a second dataset
Journal club: the CagriSema phase 2 combination paper — a second dataset — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Posting a small dataset on CagriSema phase 2 combination paper.…
ADACLMAK+74 79 2.3k 13mo
Journal club: STEP 4 and what a withdrawal design can prove — one year on
Journal club: STEP 4 and what a withdrawal design can prove — one year on Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. Session topic: STEP 4 ( JAMA , 2021). Please read…
TDSVOFSOCT+56 62 34k 15mo
Coming back to: Nausea profile of amylin analogues compared with GLP-1 agonists
Posting this under the heading it deserves: Nausea profile of amylin analogues compared with GLP-1 agonists Everything below is what sits behind that. Nausea profile of amylin analogues — I have the…
NEKCMALC+48 53 31k 13mo
Why a glucagon receptor agonist in a weight-loss compound is not a contradiction — one year on
The question in the title: Why a glucagon receptor agonist in a weight-loss compound is not a contradiction — one year on I will give what I have already checked below so nobody repeats it. Glucagon receptor…
AWNGNSPPRZ 4 3.7k 10mo