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Analytics · HPLC & UHPLC

Revisiting: Theoretical plates: useful number or ritual?

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Solved by l.chevalier in post #9
Change the wavelength and the proportions change even though the sample has not. That is the reason the wavelength has to be on the document for the number to mean anything.

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OL
o.lindgrenTL2Regular29 Mar 2026#1

Asking directly, because I could not find a straight answer: Revisiting: Theoretical plates: useful number or ritual?

Asking about Theoretical plates directly, because I have read four threads on it and each answered a slightly different question.

The version I want answered is the narrow one: given the method stated below, is the result within what anyone else has seen? I am not asking what it means yet.

Method, numbers and the two assumptions I am aware of making are below. If the assumptions are wrong that is more useful to me than agreement.

12 likes 4mo
NA
n.achebeTL29 Apr 2026#2

Theoretical plates is a good example of a question where the honest answer is boring and the interesting answers are unsupported. I would go with boring.

16 likes 4mo
NR
n.rowntreeTL3Regular17 Apr 2026 · edited#3

Before anything else: what was the gradient, and at what wavelength? Area percent at different wavelengths is not the same number even on the same sample because different species absorb differently at different wavelengths. With the method stated, I can tell you something useful. Without it, all I can say is that there is one large peak.

32 likes 3mo
KK
k.kuuselaTL224 Apr 2026#4
o.lindgren, post #1: Asking directly, because I could not find a straight answer: Revisiting: Theoretical plates: useful number or ritual? Asking about Theoretical plates directly, because I have read four threads on it and each answered a slightly different question. The version I want answered is the narrow one: given the method stated below, is the… Go to post

On the opening post — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Detection wavelength: 214 nm detects the peptide bond and is relatively insensitive to composition. 280 nm detects aromatic residues and is strongly composition-dependent. Area percent at one wavelength is not area percent at the other.

I am confident about the direction and much less about the magnitude.

0 likes in reply to #1 3mo
CW
c.wijnbergTL2Member1 May 2026#5
n.rowntree, post #3: Before anything else: what was the gradient, and at what wavelength? Area percent at different wavelengths is not the same number even on the same sample because different species absorb differently at different wavelengths. With the method stated, I can tell you something useful. Without it, all I can say is that there is one large peak. Go to post

The thing about Theoretical plates that took me longest to accept is that a plausible mechanism is not evidence of an effect. It is a reason to look, not a result.

3 likes in reply to #3 3mo
RB
r.bakkenTL27 May 2026#6

Posting my Theoretical plates numbers with the method attached so they can be discounted properly. Uncontrolled, unblinded, and collected by someone who wanted a particular answer.

11 likes 3mo
K
KAnderssonTL3Regular13 May 2026#7

This follows post #6 rather than contradicting it.

Injection volume matters because column overload distorts peak shape, and an overloaded main peak can swallow a small neighbour. A certificate without injection volume is missing something load-bearing.

The number is defensible. The precision I gave it is not.

24 likes 3mo
EF
e.ferreiraTL3Regular19 May 2026#8

No disagreement from me. Posting only so the question does not look ignored.

0 likes 2mo
LC
l.chevalierTL3Regular Solution24 May 2026#9

Change the wavelength and the proportions change even though the sample has not. That is the reason the wavelength has to be on the document for the number to mean anything.

8 likes 2mo
PB
p.boatengTL230 May 2026#10
EF
endo_fellow_rkTL3Endocrinology fellow4 Jun 2026#11

I read post #7 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Counterpoint on Theoretical plates, offered without confidence: the same observation is consistent with a much duller explanation, and nobody has ruled the dull one out.

3 likes 2mo
TD
t.dumitruTL29 Jun 2026#12
l.chevalier, post #9: Change the wavelength and the proportions change even though the sample has not. That is the reason the wavelength has to be on the document for the number to mean anything. Go to post

Post #11 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

The most useful reply I ever got about Theoretical plates was a request to state my units. It sounds like pedantry and it has saved me twice.

0 likes in reply to #9 2mo
TH
TL4_HalvorsenTL4Leader · Journal club14 Jun 2026#13
r.bakken, post #6: Posting my Theoretical plates numbers with the method attached so they can be discounted properly. Uncontrolled, unblinded, and collected by someone who wanted a particular answer. Go to post

That reframing is the whole thing. The facts I already had.

22 likes in reply to #6 1mo
RE
r.ekstromTL219 Jun 2026 · edited#14

Retention time is only comparable within a laboratory on a given method. Quoting a retention time across two reports as evidence of identity is not a valid comparison.

10 likes 1mo
SL
s.leclercTL4 Moderator24 Jun 2026#15

A chromatogram image at a resolution where you can see peak shape but not baseline detail is worth having and is not the same as the data. Ask for the integration table if the number matters.

The general case is well covered; this is the awkward specific one.

5 likes 1mo
MB
m.brobergTL229 Jun 2026#16
endo_fellow_rk, post #11: I read post #7 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Counterpoint on Theoretical plates, offered without confidence: the same observation is consistent with a much duller explanation, and nobody has ruled the dull one out. Go to post

Narrowing post #15, because the general version has more than one answer.

Checked the Theoretical plates claim against the primary source this morning. It survives, with a narrower scope than the version quoted here. Posting the narrower scope.

0 likes in reply to #11 29d
C
chromatogramTL4Analytical chemist4 Jul 2026#17

Post #15 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Reporting rather than recommending, on Theoretical plates. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer.

30 likes 24d
MI
m.ibarraTL28 Jul 2026#18

Reversed-phase separates on hydrophobicity. A peptide is retained on a non-polar stationary phase and eluted by increasing organic solvent. For peptides the mobile phase almost always contains an ion-pairing acid, typically 0.1% TFA, which suppresses secondary interactions and sharpens peaks.

15 likes 20d
SL
sleep_logTL2Regular13 Jul 2026 · edited#19

Worth stating the null on Theoretical plates before we explain it: the observation may be nothing. That possibility deserves a sentence and usually does not get one.

0 likes 15d
LV
l.vukovicTL218 Jul 2026#20

Marking my place. If it changes for me I will come back and say so.

31 likes 10d
AW
a.wikstromTL222 Jul 2026#21

Building on post #19 rather than restating it.

Before the thread moves on from Theoretical plates — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred.

0 likes 6d
C
chromatogramTL4Analytical chemist26 Jul 2026#22

Gradient delay volume differs between instruments and shifts the whole chromatogram. It is why a transferred method rarely reproduces retention times exactly on a different system.

5 likes 1d

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