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Data & Tools · Calculators · continued

The mass-error checker and its intended scope posts 121–150

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

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NicolaidesTL3Regular13 Jul 2024 · edited#121
f.novak, post #72: Worth separating two things that post #71 runs together. Dose equivalence calculator: compounds have different potencies. The calculator is provided with a caveat: "equivalence" is not precise and individual response varies. It is a rough starting point, not a dose prescription. Go to post

A note on how mass-error checker gets discussed rather than on mass-error checker itself: the confident posts get the replies and the careful ones get ignored, and the careful ones have been right more often.

2 likes in reply to #72 2y
FP
f.piresTL214 Jul 2024#122

Worth stating the null on mass-error checker before we explain it: the observation may be nothing. That possibility deserves a sentence and usually does not get one.

9 likes 2y
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aliquot_lineTL3Regular14 Jul 2024#123

Post #122 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Significant figures in the output should not exceed what the inputs support. A concentration calculated from a nominal vial mass is not known to four decimal places.

29 likes 2y
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v.stanescuTL215 Jul 2024#124
h.castellanos, post #34: Genuine question rather than a rhetorical one: has anyone here actually observed mass-error checker, as opposed to read about it? The thread is long and I cannot tell. Go to post

My position on mass-error checker is current rather than settled. I have revised it once already and I expect to again, so treat it accordingly.

0 likes in reply to #34 2y
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DKwiatkowskiTL3Regular15 Jul 2024#125
y.eriksen, post #62: On mass-error checker I would separate what is worth knowing from what is worth acting on. The first list is long and the second is short, and conflating them is how threads get heated. Go to post

Where the mass-error checker discussion usually stalls is that nobody wants to say "I do not know" and everyone is willing to say "it varies". Those are the same sentence with different clothes on.

5 likes in reply to #62 2y
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j.lokkenTL215 Jul 2024#126

A saved calculation is worth more than a remembered one. Write down the inputs alongside the result, because the result alone is unverifiable a month later.

Nothing above should be read as advice about what anyone else should do.

14 likes 2y
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glossary_deskTL3Regular16 Jul 2024#127

Reading back through, this was answered upthread and I missed it. My fault.

0 likes 2y
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l.krastevTL216 Jul 2024#128

I had written a reply contradicting post #124 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

The parts-per-million mass-error calculation is simple enough to do mentally to one significant figure, which is a good habit because it catches an order-of-magnitude slip immediately.

0 likes 2y
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DSakamotoTL3Regular16 Jul 2024#129

The arithmetic in post #126 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Dose equivalence calculator: compounds have different potencies. The calculator is provided with a caveat: "equivalence" is not precise and individual response varies. It is a rough starting point, not a dose prescription.

9 likes 2y
EK
ew.kuuselaTL217 Jul 2024#130

Mass-error checker looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour.

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t.demirTL217 Jul 2024#131

Unit-conversion tools are only as good as the assumption they make about the syringe. Ask what barrel and what graduation interval it assumed before trusting the units figure.

I would treat the number as indicative rather than as a measurement.

0 likes 2y
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KTurkingtonTL3Regular18 Jul 2024#132
footnote_entry, post #33: Picking up post #32: that is the part I would want checked first. The parts-per-million mass-error calculation is simple enough to do mentally to one significant figure, which is a good habit because it catches an order-of-magnitude slip immediately. It is one reading of the data and not the only reasonable one. Go to post

That is clearer than the version I had in my head. Thank you.

0 likes in reply to #33 2y
AF
a.friskTL218 Jul 2024#133

I read post #131 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Nobody has said the unglamorous part of mass-error checker yet, so: most of the variation is explained by things that are boring to write about and easy to check.

7 likes 2y
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t.ndiayeTL218 Jul 2024#134

Post #131 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

My experience of mass-error checker contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.

1 like 2y
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a.norgaardTL219 Jul 2024#135

Worth separating two things that post #131 runs together.

The most common input error is entering the vial mass in the concentration field. It produces a plausible number, which is why it survives.

I have no interest in any supplier named above.

0 likes 2y
NB
n.bridgewaterTL2Member19 Jul 2024 · edited#136

Unit-conversion tools are only as good as the assumption they make about the syringe. Ask what barrel and what graduation interval it assumed before trusting the units figure.

The general answer and the answer for your case may diverge here.

17 likes 2y
EM
e.mwangiTL219 Jul 2024#137
DKwiatkowski, post #125: Where the mass-error checker discussion usually stalls is that nobody wants to say "I do not know" and everyone is willing to say "it varies". Those are the same sentence with different clothes on. Go to post

What I would want before treating mass-error checker as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing.

4 likes in reply to #125 2y
TI
trough_indexTL320 Jul 2024#138
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s.leclercTL4 Moderator20 Jul 2024#139

Tools that run entirely in the browser send nothing anywhere, which matters more to some people here than others and is worth stating either way.

25 likes 2y
MB
m.brobergTL220 Jul 2024#140

Picking up post #139: that is the part I would want checked first.

Mass-error checker is well covered in the tag pages, and the older discussions are better than the recent ones because they were argued out properly. Worth twenty minutes before adding to this one.

12 likes 2y
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WendelboeTL2Member21 Jul 2024#141

Posting my mass-error checker numbers with the method attached so they can be discounted properly. Uncontrolled, unblinded, and collected by someone who wanted a particular answer.

1 like 2y
FY
f.yildizTL221 Jul 2024#142

Worth separating two things that post #139 runs together.

Dose equivalence calculator: compounds have different potencies. The calculator is provided with a caveat: "equivalence" is not precise and individual response varies. It is a rough starting point, not a dose prescription.

If anyone can point at the primary source I would be grateful.

7 likes 2y
CP
citation_peakTL3Regular22 Jul 2024#143
ambient_draft, post #77: A definition problem is doing most of the work in this mass-error checker discussion. Once the term is pinned down I suspect the disagreement mostly goes away and what is left is small. Go to post

Post #140 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Mass error checking: enter your observed mass and theoretical mass and check whether the difference in ppm is within reasonable bounds for your instrument. Useful sanity check on LC-MS results.

17 likes in reply to #77 2y
MN
ma.nascimentoTL222 Jul 2024#144
b.dumitru, post #110: The arithmetic on mass-error checker is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it. Go to post

The calculators maintained on this site are open-source and verifiable. They are intended to check arithmetic, not to replace medical judgement. Using them is optional and they are provided for convenience.

0 likes in reply to #110 2y
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l.parkinsonTL2Member22 Jul 2024#145

Picking up post #144: that is the part I would want checked first.

On mass-error checker the community has more anecdote than the confidence in this thread implies, and I include my own contribution in that.

0 likes 2y
SD
s.demirTL223 Jul 2024#146

On post #142 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

A saved calculation is worth more than a remembered one. Write down the inputs alongside the result, because the result alone is unverifiable a month later.

4 likes 2y
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vial_slopeTL3Regular23 Jul 2024#147

A calculator that shows its working is worth ten that give an answer. The whole value is being able to see which step you disagree with.

12 likes 2y
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v.malinowskiTL223 Jul 2024#148
l.krastev, post #128: I had written a reply contradicting post #124 and deleted it. Here is what survived. The parts-per-million mass-error calculation is simple enough to do mentally to one significant figure, which is a good habit because it catches an order-of-magnitude slip immediately. Go to post

Small methodological point on mass-error checker: repeating a measurement is cheap and resolves most of what is being argued about here at no cost to anyone.

25 likes in reply to #128 2y
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NLoughranTL3Regular24 Jul 2024#149

Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half.

6 likes 2y
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k.karlsenTL224 Jul 2024#150
r.marsden, post #63: Unit-conversion tools are only as good as the assumption they make about the syringe. Ask what barrel and what graduation interval it assumed before trusting the units figure. That is one dataset and I would not build a rule on it. Go to post

The reason mass-error checker keeps being re-asked is that the answer is conditional and people quote it without the condition. It is not that the answer is unknown.

16 likes in reply to #63 2y