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The topic list is dense — is that deliberate?

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Solved by d.vestergaard in post #8
Small correction to my own earlier position on topic list. I had the units the wrong way round, which changes the conclusion by an order of magnitude and therefore changes it entirely.

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QZ
q.zhao_qaTL3Quality assurance27 Jun 2024#1

The topic list is dense — is that deliberate? — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked.

A narrow question about topic list, deliberately narrow, because the broad version has been asked here four times and produced four long threads and no answer.

One question, stated units, stated method, and what I have already ruled out.

21 likes 2.1y
BF
b.friskTL24 Jul 2024#2

The opening post and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Where I have landed on topic list, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it.

24 likes 2.1y
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buffer_sheetTL3Regular8 Jul 2024#3

Navigation problems: if you cannot find something you expected to exist, or the path to it is unclear, report it. Site architecture affects usability.

0 likes 2.1y
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f.lindholmTL213 Jul 2024#4
buffer_sheet, post #3: Navigation problems: if you cannot find something you expected to exist, or the path to it is unclear, report it. Site architecture affects usability. Go to post

Feature request framed as feedback: the category list is long enough that a first-time reader cannot tell which four categories carry most of the traffic. A count next to each would fix that without changing anything structural.

The mechanism is plausible, which is not the same as established.

3 likes in reply to #3 2y
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integrator_logTL3Regular16 Jul 2024#5

The question underneath topic list is usually "how would I tell?" rather than "what is true?", and that one has a method attached to it.

Write down what you would expect to see under each hypothesis before you collect anything. If they predict the same observation, collecting it will not help.

7 likes 2y
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s.salgadoTL220 Jul 2024#6

Understood. Thank you for being specific about the limits of it.

17 likes 2y
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vial_tableTL2Member24 Jul 2024#7

Narrowing post #4, because the general version has more than one answer.

Suggestion rather than complaint: the vendor pages carry a review date, and topics do not. A topic that has been read by a maintainer recently is a different thing from one nobody has looked at since 2024.

0 likes 2y
DV
d.vestergaardTL2 Solution27 Jul 2024#8
integrator_log, post #5: The question underneath topic list is usually "how would I tell?" rather than "what is true?", and that one has a method attached to it. Write down what you would expect to see under each hypothesis before you collect anything. If they predict the same observation, collecting it will not help. Go to post

Small correction to my own earlier position on topic list. I had the units the wrong way round, which changes the conclusion by an order of magnitude and therefore changes it entirely.

8 likes in reply to #5 2y
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DOdendaalTL3Regular30 Jul 2024#9

I disagree with the framing of topic list above, and I think it is a substantive disagreement rather than a terminological one. Setting out why, so it can be checked.

The reasoning depends on an assumption that is doing a lot of work and is never stated. If the assumption holds, the conclusion follows. I do not think it holds generally.

23 likes 2y
CM
c.marchettiTL22 Aug 2024#10

Community norms: if you think a norm has drifted or is not being followed consistently, raising it here can prompt discussion and realignment.

That has held every time I have looked, which is not the same as always.

0 likes 2y
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k.brandl_deTL3Translator · DE5 Aug 2024#11

Agreed on topic list, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states.

3 likes 2y
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a.teixeiraTL28 Aug 2024#12

Adding thanks rather than a view. I do not have a view worth the space.

0 likes 2y
RF
resistance_firstTL2Regular11 Aug 2024#13

Two people in this thread mean different things by topic list and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it.

31 likes 2y
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c.haddadTL214 Aug 2024#14
f.lindholm, post #4: Feature request framed as feedback: the category list is long enough that a first-time reader cannot tell which four categories carry most of the traffic. A count next to each would fix that without changing anything structural. The mechanism is plausible, which is not the same as established. Go to post

Reporting a real defect: on a long topic the jump-to-post link scrolls to the right post but the highlight does not fire on the first load. Second load is fine. Reproducible on my end, twice.

16 likes in reply to #4 23mo
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GEldridgeTL3Regular17 Aug 2024#15
a.teixeira, post #12: Adding thanks rather than a view. I do not have a view worth the space. Go to post

Performance: if pages are slow to load, timeouts occur, or the site is unresponsive, that is worth reporting with details (when, which pages, how slow).

1 like in reply to #12 23mo
AK
a.krastevTL220 Aug 2024#16

The version of topic list that circulates here is a simplification of a simplification. It is not wrong, but it has lost the conditions under which it holds, and those conditions are where the interesting cases live.

0 likes 23mo
DB
d.bramleyTL3Regular23 Aug 2024#17

Post #13 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Genuine question rather than a rhetorical one: has anyone here actually observed topic list, as opposed to read about it? The thread is long and I cannot tell.

23 likes 23mo
AN
a.nascimentoTL226 Aug 2024#18
f.lindholm, post #4: Feature request framed as feedback: the category list is long enough that a first-time reader cannot tell which four categories carry most of the traffic. A count next to each would fix that without changing anything structural. The mechanism is plausible, which is not the same as established. Go to post

Accessibility: screen readers, keyboard navigation, contrast, font size — if something is not accessible to you, report it. Accessibility matters.

One of those cases where knowing the mechanism does not help the decision.

11 likes in reply to #4 23mo
GC
glossary_checkTL2Member28 Aug 2024#19
c.haddad, post #14: Reporting a real defect: on a long topic the jump-to-post link scrolls to the right post but the highlight does not fire on the first load. Second load is fine. Reproducible on my end, twice. Go to post

Good question, well framed, and I would like to see it answered properly.

0 likes in reply to #14 23mo
AK
an.kirchnerTL231 Aug 2024#20

The counter-argument is that a review date on a topic implies a maintenance promise nobody has made. A document carries one because somebody signed up to it.

On balance I think that is right, and I would not bet much on it.

32 likes 23mo
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a.stephanopoulosTL3Regular3 Sep 2024 · edited#21

Topic list looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour.

11 likes 23mo
FP
f.petrovTL25 Sep 2024#22

I read post #20 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Small methodological point on topic list: repeating a measurement is cheap and resolves most of what is being argued about here at no cost to anyone.

23 likes 23mo
SF
sterile_fileTL3Regular8 Sep 2024#23
d.bramley, post #17: Post #13 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Genuine question rather than a rhetorical one: has anyone here actually observed topic list, as opposed to read about it? The thread is long and I cannot tell. Go to post

Taking post #22 at face value and following it one step further.

Feedback on the trust-level page: it explains what each level unlocks, and not what a member at that level is expected to do differently. The second is what people actually want to know.

The interesting part of this is the exception, and I do not understand the exception.

0 likes in reply to #17 23mo
LC
l.cabreraTL210 Sep 2024#24
f.petrov, post #22: I read post #20 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Small methodological point on topic list: repeating a measurement is cheap and resolves most of what is being argued about here at no cost to anyone. Go to post

Having read the whole topic list thread before replying: the question in the first post has not actually been answered yet, and three of us have answered a nearby one instead.

3 likes in reply to #22 23mo
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FairweatherTL2Member13 Sep 2024#25

Moderation decisions: if you disagree with a moderation decision, raising it here gives it visibility. Staff will reconsider if you make a substantive case.

7 likes 22mo
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ka.batistaTL215 Sep 2024#26

Topic list is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

17 likes 22mo
BN
bench_notesTL4 Moderator18 Sep 2024#27
d.bramley, post #17: Post #13 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Genuine question rather than a rhetorical one: has anyone here actually observed topic list, as opposed to read about it? The thread is long and I cannot tell. Go to post
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

Building on post #26 rather than restating it.

That distinction is real and staff have discussed it twice without deciding. The risk is that a topic marked unanswered discourages the reply that would answer it. If anyone has seen it work elsewhere, say so — that is the missing evidence.

The literature is thinner on this than the confidence in the thread implies.

0 likes in reply to #17 22mo
DV
d.vestergaardTL220 Sep 2024#28

Following, with nothing to contribute beyond having asked the same thing elsewhere.

1 like 22mo
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GDashwoodTL3Regular23 Sep 2024#29

The thing about topic list that took me longest to accept is that a plausible mechanism is not evidence of an effect. It is a reason to look, not a result.

22 likes 22mo
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l.ferreiraTL225 Sep 2024#30

Posting my topic list numbers with the method attached so they can be discounted properly. Uncontrolled, unblinded, and collected by someone who wanted a particular answer.

0 likes 22mo