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Analytics · Mass spectrometry

What a 2 ppm match establishes, and what it does not

JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular10 Feb 2025#1

What a 2 ppm match establishes, and what it does not — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked.

Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like it checked.

semaglutide has a monoisotopic mass close to 4113.6 Da. On an electrospray instrument I would expect to see the multiply charged series rather than the intact singly charged ion, so for the doubly charged species I calculate (4113.6 + 2 x 1.00728) / 2, and for the triply charged the analogous expression.

The observed values in the report sit within a few ppm of those. My question is what that actually establishes, because I have seen people treat a mass match as a purity result and I do not think it is one.

2 likes 18mo
BP
bench_peakTL3Regular20 Feb 2025#2

Practical answer on 2 ppm match, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

6 likes 17mo
SO
s.oyelaranTL228 Feb 2025#3

Adding the measurement that the opening post says would settle it.

Two people in this thread mean different things by 2 ppm match and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it.

22 likes 17mo
O
OTeixeiraTL3Regular6 Mar 2025#4

Post #2 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible.

The step people skip is the one I have spelled out.

0 likes 17mo
AK
ar.kravchenkoTL212 Mar 2025#5

Agreed on 2 ppm match, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states.

3 likes 17mo
K
KStephanopoulosTL3Regular18 Mar 2025#6
j.vandermolen, post #1: What a 2 ppm match establishes, and what it does not — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like it checked. semaglutide has a monoisotopic mass close to 4113.6 Da. On an electrospray instrument I would expect to see the multiply… Go to post

Good question, well framed, and I would like to see it answered properly.

10 likes in reply to #1 16mo
SV
s.vogelTL224 Mar 2025#7

Adding the measurement that post #4 says would settle it.

A mass match establishes that the measured mass is consistent with the proposed composition. It does not establish purity, sequence order, or the absence of an isomer, and all three are frequently claimed from it.

30 likes 16mo
EM
endpoint_marginTL2Member29 Mar 2025 · edited#8

If someone has run 2 ppm match properly I would rather read that than my own reconstruction of it. Posting mine only because the thread has gone quiet.

0 likes 16mo
PF
p.fontaineTL23 Apr 2025#9
ar.kravchenko, post #5: Agreed on 2 ppm match, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states. Go to post

Post #8 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

The reason 2 ppm match keeps being re-asked is that the answer is conditional and people quote it without the condition. It is not that the answer is unknown.

5 likes in reply to #5 16mo
CI
citation_indexTL2Member8 Apr 2025#10

Where I part company with post #7, and it is a narrow parting.

The honest summary of what a mass result buys you: it narrows the field of what the material could be, considerably. It never closes it, and no certificate should be read as though it had.

15 likes 16mo
AK
ak.kravchenkoTL213 Apr 2025#11

A note on scope: what I am saying about 2 ppm match applies to the case in the first post and I would not extend it further without checking.

14 likes 15mo
IT
integrator_traceTL2Member18 Apr 2025#12

Where the 2 ppm match reasoning breaks down for me is the step from the group result to the individual case. That step is almost never argued for.

5 likes 15mo
NK
n.kirchnerTL222 Apr 2025#13
j.vandermolen, post #1: What a 2 ppm match establishes, and what it does not — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like it checked. semaglutide has a monoisotopic mass close to 4113.6 Da. On an electrospray instrument I would expect to see the multiply… Go to post

Post #9 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

0 likes in reply to #1 15mo
AS
a.schaefferTL2Member27 Apr 2025#14
ak.kravchenko, post #11: A note on scope: what I am saying about 2 ppm match applies to the case in the first post and I would not extend it further without checking. Go to post

2 ppm match has been discussed here with more heat than it deserves, mostly because two definitions have been in play the whole time.

0 likes in reply to #11 15mo
HK
h.kimaniTL22 May 2025 · edited#15

2 ppm match would be much easier to settle if anyone reported the denominator. Almost nobody reports the denominator.

20 likes 15mo
B
BDraganovTL2Member6 May 2025#16

Post #13 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Positional isomers and epimers are mass-identical. Any argument that a mass result rules them out is wrong, and it is the commonest overclaim in this subcategory.

I would put this at better than even and not much better.

9 likes 15mo
TM
t.marchettiTL210 May 2025#17
s.oyelaran, post #3: Adding the measurement that the opening post says would settle it. Two people in this thread mean different things by 2 ppm match and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it. Go to post

I think the 2 ppm match question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

2 likes in reply to #3 15mo
HA
h.almeidaTL2Member15 May 2025#18

Calibration state at the time of the run determines whether the ppm figure means anything. A report that states when the instrument was last calibrated is unusual and is worth more than one that does not.

I have said this before in a thread nobody could find, so it is worth repeating.

0 likes 14mo
EM
e.mwangiTL219 May 2025#19

I had written a reply contradicting post #17 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

The honest summary of what a mass result buys you: it narrows the field of what the material could be, considerably. It never closes it, and no certificate should be read as though it had.

It cost nothing to check and would have cost something not to.

28 likes 14mo
TI
trough_indexTL3Regular23 May 2025#20

2 ppm match sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly.

13 likes 14mo
NL
n.lehtinenTL227 May 2025#21

A methods point on 2 ppm match rather than a substantive one: if the comparison is not like for like, the difference you are measuring is the difference in method.

4 likes 14mo
AI
a.ibarraTL21 Jun 2025#22

I read post #20 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

This is the sort of thing the wiki should carry and currently does not.

12 likes 14mo
NR
n.rahimiTL25 Jun 2025#23
a.ibarra, post #22: I read post #20 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation. This is the sort of thing the wiki should carry… Go to post

Taking post #22 at face value and following it one step further.

Positional isomers and epimers are mass-identical. Any argument that a mass result rules them out is wrong, and it is the commonest overclaim in this subcategory.

Two sources, same conclusion, and I could not rule out that one copied the other.

0 likes in reply to #22 14mo
LD
l.dziedzicTL29 Jun 2025#24

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations.

0 likes 14mo
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist13 Jun 2025#25

Post #22 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none.

7 likes 13mo
HV
h.vargaTL217 Jun 2025 · edited#26

Coming back to post #24, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

Posted with less confidence than the sentence structure implies.

18 likes 13mo
K
KLindqvistTL421 Jun 2025#27
CT
c.tullochTL225 Jun 2025#28
endpoint_margin, post #8: If someone has run 2 ppm match properly I would rather read that than my own reconstruction of it. Posting mine only because the thread has gone quiet. Go to post

Marking my uncertainty on 2 ppm match explicitly. I am confident about the direction, much less confident about the size, and not confident at all that it generalises past the case in the first post.

1 like in reply to #8 13mo
SA
s.achebeTL228 Jun 2025#29

The arithmetic in post #26 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible.

Where I would look next, rather than where I would stop.

0 likes 13mo
K
KnowltonTL3Regular2 Jul 2025#30
d.oyelaran, post #25: Post #22 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of… Go to post

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

4 likes in reply to #25 13mo