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Evidence · Study critique

A well-designed study with a badly written abstract

RC
r.coelhoTL227 Mar 2025#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: A well-designed study with a badly written abstract Everything below is what sits behind that.

Reading back through what has been written here about well-designed study, three questions come up every time and only one has ever been answered properly.

Listing all three, with what I think the state of the answer is for each, so the thread can start further along than the last one did.

26 likes 16mo
MI
m.ilungaTL229 Mar 2025#2

Reporting bias within a paper — a result in a figure that is absent from the abstract — is checkable and is worth checking when the claim matters.

28 likes 16mo
CB
careful_beginnerTL1Member30 Mar 2025#3
r.coelho, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: A well-designed study with a badly written abstract Everything below is what sits behind that. Reading back through what has been written here about well-designed study, three questions come up every time and only one has ever been answered properly. Listing all three, with what I think the… Go to post

Surrogate endpoints are not automatically bad and their validity is compound-specific and population-specific. The question is whether this surrogate has been validated for this use.

0 likes in reply to #1 16mo
MR
m.ramosTL231 Mar 2025#4

Answering the question post #2 raises rather than the one it answers.

One caution on well-designed study: everything above assumes the underlying documentation is what it claims to be. That assumption is doing real work and is rarely stated.

5 likes 16mo
PN
priorauth_notesTL2Regular1 Apr 2025 · edited#5

On well-designed study, I would rather understate and be corrected upward than overstate and be quoted. That is a house style here and it is a good one.

20 likes 16mo
MK
m.kjaerTL22 Apr 2025#6

The pre-specified endpoint being a weaker proxy than you would like is a real criticism. It is a smaller one than saying the result was chosen after the fact.

0 likes 16mo
GT
g.tanakaTL3Regular2 Apr 2025#7
m.ramos, post #4: Answering the question post #2 raises rather than the one it answers. One caution on well-designed study: everything above assumes the underlying documentation is what it claims to be. That assumption is doing real work and is rarely stated. Go to post

Narrowing post #4, because the general version has more than one answer.

The number people quote for well-designed study is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own.

2 likes in reply to #4 16mo
EM
e.mbekiTL23 Apr 2025#8
m.kjaer, post #6: The pre-specified endpoint being a weaker proxy than you would like is a real criticism. It is a smaller one than saying the result was chosen after the fact. Go to post

This is the answer, and the reason it is the answer is the more useful part.

8 likes in reply to #6 16mo
JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular4 Apr 2025#9

Post #7 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Practical answer on well-designed study, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

5 likes 16mo
NS
n.serranoTL25 Apr 2025#10

Coming back to post #6, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Multiple comparisons: if a paper reports many outcomes, the chance of a spurious association by random chance is real. Pre-specification of primary outcomes matters and secondary analyses are weaker evidence.

Worth reading the earlier posts in this thread before acting on mine.

15 likes 16mo
AA
an.adeyemiTL26 Apr 2025#11

Where the well-designed study reasoning breaks down for me is the step from the group result to the individual case. That step is almost never argued for.

5 likes 16mo
ES
e.silvaTL26 Apr 2025#12

I think the well-designed study question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

0 likes 16mo
LF
l.ferreiraTL27 Apr 2025 · edited#13
m.kjaer, post #6: The pre-specified endpoint being a weaker proxy than you would like is a real criticism. It is a smaller one than saying the result was chosen after the fact. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #9 runs together.

Hold a trial to the standard something could actually have met. A criticism that no achievable design could have answered is a criticism of the field rather than of the paper.

Filing this under things that are true until someone shows me otherwise.

0 likes in reply to #6 16mo
HK
h.koodziejTL2Member8 Apr 2025#14
m.ramos, post #4: Answering the question post #2 raises rather than the one it answers. One caution on well-designed study: everything above assumes the underlying documentation is what it claims to be. That assumption is doing real work and is rarely stated. Go to post

This follows post #13 rather than contradicting it.

A note on scope: what I am saying about well-designed study applies to the case in the first post and I would not extend it further without checking.

21 likes in reply to #4 16mo
EM
e.mwangiTL28 Apr 2025#15

A criticism that would apply equally to every trial in the field is worth stating once and is not a reason to discount a particular paper.

9 likes 16mo
TI
trough_indexTL3Regular9 Apr 2025#16

The strongest argument against my own position on well-designed study, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

2 likes 16mo
HF
h.fonsecaTL210 Apr 2025#17
NB
n.bridgewaterTL2Member10 Apr 2025#18

Well-designed study would be much easier to settle if anyone reported the denominator. Almost nobody reports the denominator.

28 likes 16mo
PF
p.friskTL211 Apr 2025#19

Statistical significance and clinical importance are different and both are needed. A significant difference below the minimal important difference is a real finding of no practical consequence.

1 like 16mo
VM
v.milanoviTL312 Apr 2025#20
MY
m.yildizTL212 Apr 2025#21

Post #18 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Second-hand on well-designed study, so weight it accordingly — someone whose method I trust told me this and I have not verified it myself.

14 likes 16mo
KF
k.farrugiaTL3Regular13 Apr 2025#22
e.silva, post #12: I think the well-designed study question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread. Go to post

Where I part company with post #21, and it is a narrow parting.

Building consensus on which criticisms matter: if everyone agrees that the sample size is small but only you think that affects the conclusion, maybe your criticism is more idiosyncratic. That does not make it wrong but it is worth noticing.

29 likes in reply to #12 15mo
RF
ro.friskTL214 Apr 2025#23
v.milanovi, post #20: Narrowing post #18, because the general version has more than one answer. I changed my mind about well-designed study after someone here asked me for the source and I could not produce one. That is worth saying out loud because it is the ordinary way it happens. Go to post

I have three months of notes on well-designed study and the honest summary is that the trend is real and the week-to-week numbers are noise. I nearly drew the opposite conclusion from the first fortnight.

0 likes in reply to #20 15mo
LM
lyophil_marginTL3Regular14 Apr 2025#24

Generalisability and validity are separate axes. A trial can be internally impeccable and still tell you nothing about the person asking.

Happy to be corrected if someone holds better data than mine.

5 likes 15mo
ZN
z.nakamuraTL215 Apr 2025#25

Building on post #22 rather than restating it.

Reporting bias within a paper — a result in a figure that is absent from the abstract — is checkable and is worth checking when the claim matters.

21 likes 15mo
EM
e.mikkelsenTL2Member15 Apr 2025#26

Good question, well framed, and I would like to see it answered properly.

0 likes 15mo
RO
r.oyelaranTL216 Apr 2025#27
e.mikkelsen, post #26: Good question, well framed, and I would like to see it answered properly. Go to post

Per-protocol and intention-to-treat analyses answer different questions and neither is the honest one by default. Reporting both is the practice worth insisting on.

Two sources, same conclusion, and I could not rule out that one copied the other.

2 likes in reply to #26 15mo
RT
r.torrenceTL2Member17 Apr 2025 · edited#28

Offering a way to settle well-designed study rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision.

9 likes 15mo
EK
e.krastevTL217 Apr 2025#29

Generalisability: do the inclusion/exclusion criteria narrow the population so much that results do not apply to real people asking about it? This is a fair criticism but requires specificity about which real people and why the difference matters.

If the premise is wrong, everything after it is decoration.

28 likes 15mo
M
MSaarinenTL3Regular18 Apr 2025#30

A note on how well-designed study gets discussed rather than on well-designed study itself: the confident posts get the replies and the careful ones get ignored, and the careful ones have been right more often.

0 likes 15mo