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Analytics · HPLC & UHPLC · continued

Carryover and the ghost peak from last week's standard posts 61–90

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

BV
b.vestergaardTL29 Apr 2025#61

Post #60 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Purity by chromatography answers "what proportion of what I detected is the intended species". It does not answer how much is in the vial, which is a separate assay.

Adding this to the thread rather than to the wiki, because I am not confident enough for the wiki.

0 likes 16mo
CD
c.delgadoTL29 Apr 2025#62
bench_notes, post #53: If you are new and reading this thread for the answer to carryover: the answer is conditional, the conditions are in the third reply, and the rest of the thread is worth skipping. Go to post

Carryover has been discussed here with more heat than it deserves, mostly because two definitions have been in play the whole time.

0 likes in reply to #53 16mo
AL
a.lindholmTL29 Apr 2025 · edited#63

I think the carryover question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

5 likes 16mo
BD
b.demirTL29 Apr 2025#64

On post #62 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Injection volume matters because column overload distorts peak shape, and an overloaded main peak can swallow a small neighbour. A certificate without injection volume is missing something load-bearing.

14 likes 16mo
SB
s.bruunTL29 Apr 2025#65

Post #64 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

On carryover, the part that usually goes wrong is that the question is asked as though it has one answer. It has a range, and the width of the range is the interesting bit.

If you can post the two or three numbers you are working from, several people here will check the arithmetic rather than argue about the conclusion.

0 likes 16mo
BO
b.oseiTL29 Apr 2025#66
o.cousineau, post #50: Answering the question post #48 raises rather than the one it answers. On carryover: the maintained page in the documentation commons covers the general case with citations and a review date, which is more reliable than any reply here including this one. Go to post

Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is.

2 likes in reply to #50 16mo
AR
a.reyesTL4 Admin9 Apr 2025#67

Before anything else: what was the gradient, and at what wavelength? Area percent at different wavelengths is not the same number even on the same sample because different species absorb differently at different wavelengths. With the method stated, I can tell you something useful. Without it, all I can say is that there is one large peak.

Old habit: I write down the expected answer before I calculate it.

8 likes 16mo
KD
k.dahlbergTL29 Apr 2025#68

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about carryover than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

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OB
owen.bradyTL4 Moderator9 Apr 2025#69
n.villalobos, post #30: Carryover sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly. Go to post

The useful distinction on carryover is between what was measured and what was inferred from it. Both end up in the same sentence and only one of them has error bars.

21 likes in reply to #30 16mo
RS
r.serranoTL210 Apr 2025 · edited#70
Isaksen, post #46: On integration: where the baseline is drawn matters more than most people realise. On a clean chromatogram with well-resolved peaks the choice is inconsequential. On a chromatogram with a trailing shoulder or a rising baseline it matters. Differences of one to two percentage points between defensible integrations are ordinary. I would… Go to post

Where I part company with post #67, and it is a narrow parting.

Method validation is the demonstration that a method can separate the compound from its degradation products and impurities reliably. A method that cannot resolve an impurity from the parent peak will not detect that impurity.

0 likes in reply to #46 16mo
FD
f.demirTL2Regular10 Apr 2025#71

System suitability testing: injections run before and during the sample run to establish whether the instrument, column and method were performing when the sample was analysed. If suitability did not pass, the sample results from that run are uninterpretable.

The evidence for this is thinner than the way I have phrased it suggests.

26 likes 16mo
MS
m.steinerTL210 Apr 2025#72

That is a cleaner way of putting what I was circling around.

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BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician10 Apr 2025#73
a.nwosu, post #52: Offering a way to settle carryover rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision. Go to post

Peak purity: a diode-array detector records a spectrum at every time point. If a peak contains two co-eluting species with different spectra, the spectrum changes across the peak. A passing peak-purity result says the spectrum is constant; it is weak evidence of homogeneity if the impurities have similar spectra.

4 likes in reply to #52 16mo
SO
s.ostergaardTL210 Apr 2025 · edited#74
r.ilunga, post #36: Picking up post #33: that is the part I would want checked first. Retention time is only comparable within a laboratory on a given method. Quoting a retention time across two reports as evidence of identity is not a valid comparison. Go to post

Typical suitability criteria are a replicate area relative standard deviation below about two per cent, a tailing factor inside a defined window, a resolution minimum against a specified peak, and a plate-count floor.

0 likes in reply to #36 16mo
DT
dexa_twice_yearlyTL3Regular10 Apr 2025#75

I would be cautious about generalising from the carryover example above. It is a good example. It is one example.

0 likes 16mo
IB
i.balogunTL210 Apr 2025#76

Practical experience of carryover, offered as one case with the conditions stated, not as a general finding. Conditions first, because they are what make it interpretable.

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RM
r.mcalisterTL3Regular10 Apr 2025#77
n.achebe, post #47: Reading back through the carryover threads from last year, the same three questions come up every time and only one of them has ever been answered properly. That seems like a documentation gap rather than a knowledge gap. Go to post

On post #73 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Where the baseline is drawn is the least documented and most consequential choice in the whole determination. Valley-to-valley, tangent skim and forced-to-zero can span a couple of percentage points on the same chromatogram.

Worth one more sentence than it usually gets.

8 likes in reply to #47 16mo
AI
a.iyerTL211 Apr 2025#78
CR
crossover_reviewTL3Regular11 Apr 2025#79

Where I part company with post #77, and it is a narrow parting.

Before anything else: what was the gradient, and at what wavelength? Area percent at different wavelengths is not the same number even on the same sample because different species absorb differently at different wavelengths. With the method stated, I can tell you something useful. Without it, all I can say is that there is one large peak.

That holds under the stated conditions and I have stated them.

13 likes 16mo
NB
n.boatengTL211 Apr 2025#80

I have been on both sides of the carryover argument in this category within eighteen months, which should tell you how strong the evidence for either side is.

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B
BGiordanoTL2Member11 Apr 2025#81
c.delgado, post #62: Carryover has been discussed here with more heat than it deserves, mostly because two definitions have been in play the whole time. Go to post

Taking post #79 at face value and following it one step further.

Injection volume matters because column overload distorts peak shape, and an overloaded main peak can swallow a small neighbour. A certificate without injection volume is missing something load-bearing.

18 likes in reply to #62 16mo
BV
b.vestergaardTL211 Apr 2025#82
BGiordano, post #81: Taking post #79 at face value and following it one step further. Injection volume matters because column overload distorts peak shape, and an overloaded main peak can swallow a small neighbour. A certificate without injection volume is missing something load-bearing. Go to post

Post #80 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

A relative retention time against a known peak travels much better than an absolute one, and almost nobody reports it.

Take the reasoning and check the arithmetic; I do not always get it right.

0 likes in reply to #81 16mo
CD
cannula_driftTL3Regular11 Apr 2025#83

Worth stating the null on carryover before we explain it: the observation may be nothing. That possibility deserves a sentence and usually does not get one.

1 like 16mo
AM
a.mwangiTL211 Apr 2025#84
HM
h.mbekiTL211 Apr 2025#85

Understood, and I withdraw the assumption I opened with.

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KR
k.radichTL211 Apr 2025#86
n.boateng, post #9: A chromatogram image at a resolution where you can see peak shape but not baseline detail is worth having and is not the same as the data. Ask for the integration table if the number matters. Go to post

The arithmetic on carryover is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it.

26 likes in reply to #9 16mo
CD
c.delgadoTL212 Apr 2025#87

Trifluoroacetic acid at 0.1 per cent is the near-universal ion-pairing additive for this work, and it also raises the baseline at 214 nanometres. That is why the same sample looks noisier at low wavelength.

I would call that likely rather than established.

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AL
a.lindholmTL212 Apr 2025#88

The bit of carryover that nobody enjoys is that the answer changes depending on what you are trying to decide with it. Say what the decision is and the thread will converge.

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OA
o.abrahamsenTL3Regular12 Apr 2025#89

What I can speak to on carryover is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know.

33 likes 16mo
RN
r.novakTL212 Apr 2025#90
z.adeyemi, post #19: I read post #16 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. I would put moderate confidence on the mainstream reading of carryover and no more. That is not scepticism for its own sake; it is where the sourcing actually stops. Go to post

A shallow gradient resolves close-eluting species that a steep one merges. Two honest laboratories running different gradients can report genuinely different purities on the same vial.

0 likes in reply to #19 16mo