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Analytics · COA interpretation

Coming back to: Purity assay versus content assay: two different numbers

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p.mwangiTL26 Aug 2024#1

Purity assay versus content assay: two different numbers — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

Asking about Purity assay versus content assay directly, because I have read four threads on it and each answered a slightly different question.

The version I want answered is the narrow one: given the method stated below, is the result within what anyone else has seen? I am not asking what it means yet.

Method, numbers and the two assumptions I am aware of making are below. If the assumptions are wrong that is more useful to me than agreement.

6 likes 2y
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d.tammTL26 Aug 2024 · edited#2

Thank you for taking the time. That was more work than a reply usually is.

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a.zamoraTL27 Aug 2024#3
p.mwangi, post #1: Purity assay versus content assay: two different numbers — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Asking about Purity assay versus content assay directly, because I have read four threads on it and each answered a slightly different question. The version I want answered is the narrow one: given the method… Go to post

One more thing on Purity assay versus content assay that took me far too long to see: the two figures people quote are not measuring the same quantity. Once you notice that, the apparent contradiction disappears.

31 likes in reply to #1 2y
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o.vogelTL27 Aug 2024#4

Counter-ion form belongs on the document and almost never is. Acetate and trifluoroacetate salts of the same peptide contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

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e.vargaTL27 Aug 2024#5

I read post #3 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Water content by Karl Fischer is worth having on a lyophilised product because residual water is both a mass contributor and a stability factor.

1 like 2y
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bench_notesTL4 Moderator7 Aug 2024#6

Post #3 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative.

0 likes 2y
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k.perrinTL27 Aug 2024#7
a.zamora, post #3: One more thing on Purity assay versus content assay that took me far too long to see: the two figures people quote are not measuring the same quantity. Once you notice that, the apparent contradiction disappears. Go to post

The most useful reply I ever got about Purity assay versus content assay was a request to state my units. It sounds like pedantry and it has saved me twice.

23 likes in reply to #3 2y
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a.batistaTL27 Aug 2024#8

Since Purity assay versus content assay keeps coming up, it should probably be a maintained page rather than a recurring thread. I am happy to draft it if someone with more direct experience will review it.

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r.scholtenTL2Member7 Aug 2024 · edited#9

An itemised related-substances table with retention times says considerably more about the synthesis than a single total. A total tells you how much is not the main peak and nothing about what it is.

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g.verhoevenTL28 Aug 2024#10
o.vogel, post #4: Counter-ion form belongs on the document and almost never is. Acetate and trifluoroacetate salts of the same peptide contain different amounts of peptide per milligram. Go to post

The honest answer on Purity assay versus content assay is that it depends, and the useful part is the list of what it depends on. Four items, in rough order of how much they matter.

Most people get the first two right and then argue about the fourth.

3 likes in reply to #4 2y
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t.marchettiTL28 Aug 2024#11

Narrowing post #8, because the general version has more than one answer.

A document that puts the specification in the result column has told you the release criterion rather than the measurement. Those are different claims and the difference is the whole point of reading the document.

It is the kind of thing that is obvious once and never again.

5 likes 2y
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l.sarkissianTL2Member8 Aug 2024#12
bench_notes, post #6: Post #3 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported. The answer changed when I changed how I was… Go to post

Same experience here, different supplier, so it is at least not unique to one of them.

14 likes in reply to #6 2y
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n.ramosTL28 Aug 2024#13

Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate.

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IHollingworthTL2Member8 Aug 2024#14

The signature block matters more than it appears to. A named individual with a date is a different kind of document from an unsigned one, whatever the numbers say.

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r.sobczakTL28 Aug 2024#15

The arithmetic in post #13 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Practical experience of Purity assay versus content assay, offered as one case with the conditions stated, not as a general finding. Conditions first, because they are what make it interpretable.

2 likes 2y
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e.almeidaTL2Member8 Aug 2024#16
g.verhoeven, post #10: The honest answer on Purity assay versus content assay is that it depends, and the useful part is the list of what it depends on. Four items, in rough order of how much they matter. Most people get the first two right and then argue about the fourth. Go to post

I would be cautious about generalising from the Purity assay versus content assay example above. It is a good example. It is one example.

9 likes in reply to #10 2y
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ni.kravchenkoTL28 Aug 2024 · edited#17

Peptide content and chromatographic purity are separate determinations and a certificate that reports only one has answered only one question. Content is the one that tells you how much is in the vial.

That is all I can say without guessing.

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RodriguesTL3Regular9 Aug 2024#18

The distinction between release testing and characterisation is one industrial documents make and retail ones usually do not. It is the difference between "we tested every lot for this" and "we established this once".

Nothing above should be read as advice about what anyone else should do.

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h.brandtTL29 Aug 2024#19

Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it.

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isotonic_sheetTL3Regular9 Aug 2024#20

Where two documents for the same lot disagree, the useful question is which was measured and which was transcribed. Most such disagreements are the second.

I would put the burden of proof on the interesting explanation, not the dull one.

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c.amankwahTL29 Aug 2024#21
r.scholten, post #9: An itemised related-substances table with retention times says considerably more about the synthesis than a single total. A total tells you how much is not the main peak and nothing about what it is. Go to post

Post #19 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

The single most useful discipline: read the document for what it does not say. The omissions are more consistent between suppliers than the numbers are.

Happy to be the one who is wrong here if it settles the question.

0 likes in reply to #9 2y
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TL4_HalvorsenTL4Leader · Journal club9 Aug 2024#22

Adding the measurement that post #19 says would settle it.

I think the Purity assay versus content assay question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

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r.ekstromTL29 Aug 2024 · edited#23

Adding a null result on Purity assay versus content assay. I looked, carefully, and found nothing, and null results deserve posting precisely because they never are.

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endo_fellow_rkTL3Endocrinology fellow9 Aug 2024#24

A chromatogram supplied as a small image is legible for peak shape and not for baseline detail. That is enough to sanity-check an integration and not enough to reproduce it.

Adding the caveat now so it does not have to be extracted later.

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l.vukovicTL29 Aug 2024#25
n.ramos, post #13: Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate. Go to post

Clear enough that I do not think I have a follow-up, which is unusual.

0 likes in reply to #13 2y
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weekly_pinTL2Regular9 Aug 2024#26
a.batista, post #8: Since Purity assay versus content assay keeps coming up, it should probably be a maintained page rather than a recurring thread. I am happy to draft it if someone with more direct experience will review it. Go to post

When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker.

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s.adebayoTL210 Aug 2024#27

Purity assay versus content assay has been discussed here with more heat than it deserves, mostly because two definitions have been in play the whole time.

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formulary_notesTL3Regular10 Aug 2024#28

Post #27 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

The distinction between release testing and characterisation is one industrial documents make and retail ones usually do not. It is the difference between "we tested every lot for this" and "we established this once".

I am aware this is the third time this month I have made this point.

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m.brobergTL210 Aug 2024#29

What would change my mind on Purity assay versus content assay is a second dataset collected by someone with no stake in the first. Until then I hold it loosely and I would rather say so than pretend to more.

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c.bakkerTL210 Aug 2024#30
m.broberg, post #29: What would change my mind on Purity assay versus content assay is a second dataset collected by someone with no stake in the first. Until then I hold it loosely and I would rather say so than pretend to more. Go to post

This is the sort of exchange that makes the archive worth searching.

0 likes in reply to #29 2y