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Analytics · COA interpretation · continued

Coming back to: Purity assay versus content assay: two different numbers posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

RM
ra.mensaTL210 Aug 2024#31
ni.kravchenko, post #17: Peptide content and chromatographic purity are separate determinations and a certificate that reports only one has answered only one question. Content is the one that tells you how much is in the vial. That is all I can say without guessing. Go to post

An itemised related-substances table with retention times says considerably more about the synthesis than a single total. A total tells you how much is not the main peak and nothing about what it is.

That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category.

0 likes in reply to #17 2y
JD
j.delacroixTL3Regular10 Aug 2024#32
endo_fellow_rk, post #24: A chromatogram supplied as a small image is legible for peak shape and not for baseline detail. That is enough to sanity-check an integration and not enough to reproduce it. Adding the caveat now so it does not have to be extracted later. Go to post

The number people quote for Purity assay versus content assay is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own.

5 likes in reply to #24 2y
CF
c.falkTL210 Aug 2024#33

Bookmarking this. I will come back when I have something worth adding.

20 likes 2y
AW
a.westergaardTL3Regular10 Aug 2024#34

Worth separating two things that post #32 runs together.

Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain considerably less than the label claims because the remainder is water, counter-ion and excipient.

The disagreement above is smaller than it looks once the terms are fixed.

0 likes 2y
DY
d.yilmazTL210 Aug 2024#35
r.ekstrom, post #23: Adding a null result on Purity assay versus content assay. I looked, carefully, and found nothing, and null results deserve posting precisely because they never are. Go to post

Whatever the answer on Purity assay versus content assay turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction.

0 likes in reply to #23 2y
ML
m.lindqvistTL210 Aug 2024#36

Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as TFA and one as acetate, contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

2 likes 2y
RR
r.restrepoTL210 Aug 2024#37

Picking up post #34: that is the part I would want checked first.

Where two documents for the same lot disagree, the useful question is which was measured and which was transcribed. Most such disagreements are the second.

I am confident about the direction and much less about the magnitude.

14 likes 2y
CL
c.lundgrenTL211 Aug 2024#38

That matches what I have seen, for whatever a single anecdote is worth.

28 likes 2y
AV
a.villalobosTL211 Aug 2024#39
n.ramos, post #13: Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate. Go to post

The single most useful discipline: read the document for what it does not say. The omissions are more consistent between suppliers than the numbers are.

4 likes in reply to #13 2y
D
DSakamotoTL3Regular11 Aug 2024 · edited#40

I had written a reply contradicting post #36 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it.

13 likes 2y
EA
e.adeyemiTL211 Aug 2024#41
e.almeida, post #16: I would be cautious about generalising from the Purity assay versus content assay example above. It is a good example. It is one example. Go to post

Answering the question post #37 raises rather than the one it answers.

I changed my mind about Purity assay versus content assay after someone here asked me for the source and I could not produce one. That is worth saying out loud because it is the ordinary way it happens.

0 likes in reply to #16 2y
PR
policy_readerTL2Regular11 Aug 2024#42

The arithmetic in post #41 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Two claims get bundled together under Purity assay versus content assay and they need separating. The descriptive one — this is what was observed — is usually well supported. The causal one — this is why — usually is not.

Almost every disagreement in threads like this one dissolves once you say which of the two you are making.

29 likes 2y
CV
ca.vermeulenTL211 Aug 2024#43

Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain considerably less than the label claims because the remainder is water, counter-ion and excipient.

Second-hand, so weight it accordingly.

14 likes 2y
GT
g.tanakaTL3Regular11 Aug 2024 · edited#44

Counter-ion form belongs on the document and almost never is. Acetate and trifluoroacetate salts of the same peptide contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

Scoping that to what I have actually seen rather than what I have read.

5 likes 2y
RM
r.mensaTL211 Aug 2024#45
TL4_Halvorsen, post #22: Adding the measurement that post #19 says would settle it. I think the Purity assay versus content assay question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread. Go to post

Right — I had this wrong and I am glad to have read it before it mattered.

0 likes in reply to #22 2y
NG
np_gilmoreTL3Nurse practitioner11 Aug 2024#46

When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker.

Worth checking against a second source before it gets quoted onward.

0 likes 2y
FR
f.rasmussenTL211 Aug 2024#47

A chromatogram supplied as a small image is legible for peak shape and not for baseline detail. That is enough to sanity-check an integration and not enough to reproduce it.

That is my reading. Someone else read the same page differently and was reasonable.

21 likes 2y
MD
m.dalgaardTL3Regular12 Aug 2024#48
a.westergaard, post #34: Worth separating two things that post #32 runs together. Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain considerably less than… Go to post

Endotoxin testing is separate: a certificate of purity says nothing about endotoxin. A chemically pure preparation can carry a clinically significant endotoxin load. If endotoxin matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

I would want a second opinion before relying on that.

9 likes in reply to #34 2y
SD
s.dialloTL212 Aug 2024#49

Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate.

Not disagreeing with anyone above, just adding the bit I keep having to look up.

2 likes 2y
OB
owen.bradyTL4 Moderator12 Aug 2024#50
f.rasmussen, post #47: A chromatogram supplied as a small image is legible for peak shape and not for baseline detail. That is enough to sanity-check an integration and not enough to reproduce it. That is my reading. Someone else read the same page differently and was reasonable. Go to post

That is a cleaner way of putting what I was circling around.

0 likes in reply to #47 2y
CD
c.dahlbergTL212 Aug 2024#51
weekly_pin, post #26: When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker. Go to post

Post #48 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

I have no financial interest in anything named in this thread and I want to say so before I comment on Purity assay versus content assay, because it is the sort of subject where it matters.

1 like in reply to #26 2y
JB
j.baptistaTL212 Aug 2024 · edited#52

Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

6 likes 2y
VK
v.krastevTL212 Aug 2024#53

The signature block matters more than it appears to. A named individual with a date is a different kind of document from an unsigned one, whatever the numbers say.

Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me.

16 likes 2y
MA
m.achebeTL212 Aug 2024#54
e.almeida, post #16: I would be cautious about generalising from the Purity assay versus content assay example above. It is a good example. It is one example. Go to post

Understood. Thank you for being specific about the limits of it.

31 likes in reply to #16 2y
VS
v.sjobergTL212 Aug 2024#55

Post #52 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

The failure mode on Purity assay versus content assay is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong.

3 likes 2y
TV
t.vasquezTL4 Moderator12 Aug 2024#56

Coming back to post #55, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Purity assay versus content assay is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers.

10 likes 2y
MR
m.rasmussenTL212 Aug 2024#57

A document that puts the specification in the result column has told you the release criterion rather than the measurement. Those are different claims and the difference is the whole point of reading the document.

22 likes 2y
ZO
z.onwukaTL212 Aug 2024#58
t.marchetti, post #11: Narrowing post #8, because the general version has more than one answer. A document that puts the specification in the result column has told you the release criterion rather than the measurement. Those are different claims and the difference is the whole point of reading the document. It is the kind of thing that is obvious once and… Go to post

Peptide content and chromatographic purity are separate determinations and a certificate that reports only one has answered only one question. Content is the one that tells you how much is in the vial.

The claim is narrower than it sounds, and deliberately so.

0 likes in reply to #11 23mo
EC
excursion_checkTL3Regular12 Aug 2024 · edited#59
Rodrigues, post #18: The distinction between release testing and characterisation is one industrial documents make and retail ones usually do not. It is the difference between "we tested every lot for this" and "we established this once". Nothing above should be read as advice about what anyone else should do. Go to post

Water content by Karl Fischer is worth having on a lyophilised product because residual water is both a mass contributor and a stability factor.

Two sources, same conclusion, and I could not rule out that one copied the other.

5 likes in reply to #18 23mo
AH
a.hartmannTL213 Aug 2024#60
ra.mensa, post #31: An itemised related-substances table with retention times says considerably more about the synthesis than a single total. A total tells you how much is not the main peak and nothing about what it is. That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category. Go to post

What I can speak to on Purity assay versus content assay is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know.

15 likes in reply to #31 23mo