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Analytics · Method validation · continued

Coming back to: When to suspect the method rather than the sample posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

SS
s.silvaTL25 Dec 2024#31
EF
e.ferrariTL25 Dec 2024#32
a.amankwah, post #8: Transfer between laboratories: a method can be transferred from one lab to another, but the receiving lab needs to demonstrate that they can achieve the same performance. This requires comparative testing and sometimes small method refinements. Marking that as an opinion rather than a finding. Go to post

The limit of quantitation determines what the impurity table can honestly contain. Peaks below it can be reported as detected and cannot be reported as a number.

The disagreement above is smaller than it looks once the terms are fixed.

19 likes in reply to #8 20mo
K
KnowltonTL3Regular6 Dec 2024#33

The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it.

That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category.

0 likes 20mo
EK
e.kimaniTL26 Dec 2024#34

Why two laboratories may disagree: after validating the same method, they may still report different purity on the same sample due to integration differences, column age differences, subtle differences in mobile phase pH or temperature. This is normal and not a sign that one is wrong.

Caveat: everything above assumes the paperwork is what it says it is.

0 likes 20mo
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VThorvaldsenTL3Regular6 Dec 2024#35
s.lindqvist, post #4: Narrowing the opening post, because the general version has more than one answer. Forced degradation studies: deliberately stress the material with acid, base, oxidant, heat, light to generate degradation products and demonstrate that the method can separate them from the parent peak. Acceptance is that the method is stability-indicating. Go to post

Specificity is the first question: does the method separate the analyte from everything reasonably expected to be present? A method that has not been challenged with its own degradation products has not answered it.

The step people skip is the one I have spelled out.

5 likes in reply to #4 20mo
SA
s.achebeTL26 Dec 2024#36

A stability-indicating method is one demonstrated to resolve the analyte from its degradation products, usually through forced degradation. Calling a method stability-indicating without that work is a claim rather than a property.

The conclusion is tentative; the arithmetic underneath it is not.

13 likes 20mo
NT
n.torrenceTL3Regular7 Dec 2024#37

Reading rather than contributing, but this is the most useful thread I have found on it.

27 likes 20mo
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i.rasmussenTL27 Dec 2024 · edited#38

Post #34 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Robustness testing deliberately varies the parameters most likely to drift — organic percentage, pH, temperature, flow — and shows the result does not. It is the part of validation that predicts whether a method will transfer.

0 likes 20mo
SP
s.poulsenTL3Regular7 Dec 2024#39

Documented validation is what separates a number from an opinion expressed numerically. That is the whole reason to ask for the procedure identifier rather than the method name.

I would put a moderate confidence on that and no more.

18 likes 20mo
EK
e.krastevTL27 Dec 2024#40
r.weiss, post #18: A method transferred between laboratories needs a demonstration that it performs equivalently, not just a document describing it. Transfer is where a great many between-laboratory disagreements originate. Go to post

On post #38 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

An independent laboratory's method being different from the supplier's is not a discrepancy. It becomes one only when the results differ by more than both methods' demonstrated precision.

0 likes in reply to #18 20mo
JB
j.baptistaTL27 Dec 2024#41

Post #39 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Robustness: the method gives consistent results when minor parameters vary. Tested by deliberately varying pH, temperature, flow rate, and mobile phase composition within reasonable ranges and demonstrating that results stay within acceptance.

I have left out the parts I could not verify.

2 likes 20mo
CD
c.dahlbergTL28 Dec 2024#42

Building on post #39 rather than restating it.

Accuracy: the method measures what you intend to measure. For purity methods, this is tested by spike-and-recover experiments: add a known amount of impurity to a sample and measure whether you recover the added amount.

Nothing above should be read as advice about what anyone else should do.

0 likes 20mo
IC
i.coelhoTL28 Dec 2024#43
g.tamm, post #29: Post #25 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Where a pharmacopoeial monograph exists, a method that follows it inherits a great deal of assurance. Almost nothing discussed here has one. Go to post

Range: the concentration range over which the method has been validated. Going outside the validated range is going outside the method's demonstrated performance.

19 likes in reply to #29 20mo
DP
d.petrescuTL28 Dec 2024 · edited#44
a.wikstrom, post #20: Coming back to post #16, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Robustness testing deliberately varies the parameters most likely to drift — organic percentage, pH, temperature, flow — and shows the result does not. It is the part of validation that predicts whether a method will transfer. For what it is worth, the… Go to post

Forced degradation studies: deliberately stress the material with acid, base, oxidant, heat, light to generate degradation products and demonstrate that the method can separate them from the parent peak. Acceptance is that the method is stability-indicating.

Reading it again, the caveat matters more than the finding.

8 likes in reply to #20 20mo
JH
j.hartmannTL28 Dec 2024#45
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PSkarbekTL3Regular9 Dec 2024#46

Post #43 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

The limit of quantitation determines what the impurity table can honestly contain. Peaks below it can be reported as detected and cannot be reported as a number.

Happy to expand any of that if it is the useful part.

0 likes 20mo
BR
b.restrepoTL29 Dec 2024#47

That reframing is the whole thing. The facts I already had.

13 likes 20mo
BM
buffer_marginTL3Regular9 Dec 2024#48
fr.translation_mo, post #17: System suitability is the ongoing evidence that a validated method is still performing. Validation is done once; suitability is done every run, and it is the one that appears on a certificate. Go to post

Precision and repeatability: within-run and between-run variability of the method. Acceptance criterion is typically a relative standard deviation of ≤2% for area measurements.

4 likes in reply to #17 20mo
BD
baseline_driftTL2Analytical chemist9 Dec 2024#49

A method that reports the same number for every lot is worth a second look. Real processes vary, and a total absence of variation is a statement about the measurement rather than the process.

0 likes 20mo
NK
n.krastevTL29 Dec 2024 · edited#50

The distinction between a qualified instrument and a validated method is worth keeping. Both are needed and they fail in different ways.

Someone will know this better than I do and I hope they say so.

27 likes 20mo
AW
ai.wikstromTL210 Dec 2024#51
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t.steenkampTL2Member10 Dec 2024#52
sa.rasmussen, post #25: Range: the concentration range over which the method has been validated. Going outside the validated range is going outside the method's demonstrated performance. Go to post

I had read the opposite somewhere and cannot now find where, which tells me something.

7 likes in reply to #25 20mo
KA
k.adeyemiTL210 Dec 2024#53
n.torrence, post #37: Reading rather than contributing, but this is the most useful thread I have found on it. Go to post

Transfer between laboratories: a method can be transferred from one lab to another, but the receiving lab needs to demonstrate that they can achieve the same performance. This requires comparative testing and sometimes small method refinements.

24 likes in reply to #37 20mo
AD
ambient_draftTL3Regular10 Dec 2024 · edited#54

System suitability is the ongoing evidence that a validated method is still performing. Validation is done once; suitability is done every run, and it is the one that appears on a certificate.

0 likes 20mo
MM
m.marchettiTL210 Dec 2024#55

A method transferred between laboratories needs a demonstration that it performs equivalently, not just a document describing it. Transfer is where a great many between-laboratory disagreements originate.

3 likes 20mo
LS
l.sarkissianTL2Member11 Dec 2024#56
l.vukovic, post #21: Precision and repeatability: within-run and between-run variability of the method. Acceptance criterion is typically a relative standard deviation of ≤2% for area measurements. This is the version I would want a new member to read first. Go to post

Everything in post #53 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Reporting a result to more decimal places than the method's precision supports is a small dishonesty that appears everywhere. A method with a two per cent relative standard deviation does not support a figure quoted to a hundredth.

The honest answer is that it depends, and here is what it depends on.

11 likes in reply to #21 20mo
CN
c.nybergTL211 Dec 2024#57

Range and working range are different things and a certificate rarely distinguishes them. The relevant one is the range over which this particular sample was measured.

Same conclusion as the reply above, reached differently, which is mildly reassuring.

32 likes 20mo
HH
h.hutchingsTL1Member11 Dec 2024#58

Validation is compound-specific and matrix-specific. A method validated for one peptide is a starting point for another and not a validated method for it.

0 likes 20mo
SV
sa.vogelTL211 Dec 2024#59
s.grigorescu, post #28: Post #25 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. Linearity across the working range is a routine demonstration and it constrains how far a result can be extrapolated. A method linear from 80 to 120 per cent of nominal says nothing about a sample at ten per cent. That is the version I would defend. It is not the… Go to post

Good question, well framed, and I would like to see it answered properly.

6 likes in reply to #28 20mo
CD
cannula_driftTL3Regular12 Dec 2024#60
j.baptista, post #41: Post #39 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Robustness: the method gives consistent results when minor parameters vary. Tested by deliberately varying pH, temperature, flow rate, and mobile phase composition within reasonable ranges and demonstrating that results stay within acceptance. I have left out the… Go to post

Limits of detection and quantitation: LOD is the lowest concentration that produces a signal above background. LOQ is the lowest concentration at which the method meets precision and accuracy acceptance criteria. Both are determined empirically.

16 likes in reply to #41 20mo