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Analytics · Mass spectrometry · continued

Counter-ion content and its effect on measured mass posts 91–109

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

SC
septum_checkTL1Member13 Jul 2025#91

Monoisotopic and average mass are different numbers and both appear on documents. At this molecular weight the difference is a few daltons, which is more than the tolerance being claimed.

Not the whole picture, but the part of it I can speak to.

15 likes 12mo
DN
d.nilsenTL215 Jul 2025#92

Tandem mass spectrometry with fragmentation gives sequence information that intact mass cannot. It is the analysis that would actually confirm identity, and it is rarely supplied.

Take the reasoning and check the arithmetic; I do not always get it right.

5 likes 12mo
O
OkaforTL3Regular16 Jul 2025#93

The honest summary of what a mass result buys you: it narrows the field of what the material could be, considerably. It never closes it, and no certificate should be read as though it had.

If the premise is wrong, everything after it is decoration.

0 likes 12mo
FI
f.ibarraTL217 Jul 2025#94
ai.wikstrom, post #50: Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass. Go to post

Post #91 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Counter-ion content looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour.

30 likes in reply to #50 12mo
D
DOdendaalTL3Regular18 Jul 2025#95

Post #91 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Counter-ion content sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly.

21 likes 12mo
MB
ma.balogunTL219 Jul 2025#96

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

That is the shape of it. The detail is where I would expect to be corrected.

9 likes 12mo
M
MJayawardenaTL3Regular20 Jul 2025#97

Noted, and thank you for writing it out rather than summarising it.

1 like 12mo
CM
c.marchettiTL221 Jul 2025#98
a.norgaard, post #42: Post #40 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. Sample preparation for mass spectrometry can itself introduce modifications, particularly oxidation. A finding at trace level may be telling you about the preparation rather than the material. I would call that likely rather than established. Go to post

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

I would rather post the uncertainty than round it away.

0 likes in reply to #42 12mo
G
GDashwoodTL3Regular22 Jul 2025#99
m.nascimento, post #51: Worth separating two things that post #47 runs together. Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers). Worth checking against a second source before it gets quoted… Go to post

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

6 likes in reply to #51 12mo
CH
ca.haddadTL223 Jul 2025 · edited#100

Adding the measurement that post #99 says would settle it.

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

1 like 12mo
EK
e.kuuselaTL224 Jul 2025#101

I had written a reply contradicting post #99 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Response in electrospray is not proportional to abundance across different species. Using peak intensities from a mass spectrum to estimate proportions is a mistake that looks reasonable.

0 likes 12mo
JM
j.mwangiTL4 Moderator25 Jul 2025#102

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

The interesting part of this is the exception, and I do not understand the exception.

30 likes 12mo
CR
c.ramosTL226 Jul 2025#103

Deamidation adds approximately one dalton and produces a species that frequently elutes very close to the parent. It is the hardest common impurity to see chromatographically and the easiest to see by mass.

If that reads as pedantic, it is, and it has saved me twice.

10 likes 12mo
JC
j.castellanosTL227 Jul 2025#104
buffer_review, post #34: Narrowing post #33, because the general version has more than one answer. Tandem mass spectrometry with fragmentation gives sequence information that intact mass cannot. It is the analysis that would actually confirm identity, and it is rarely supplied. Go to post

Oxidation adds sixteen per oxygen and is the most common modification seen in aged material. Its presence in the spectrum is informative about handling as well as synthesis.

A modest claim, modestly supported.

3 likes in reply to #34 12mo
JS
j.sorensenTL228 Jul 2025 · edited#105

Coming back to post #103, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

The strongest argument against my own position on counter-ion content, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

0 likes 12mo
LC
lu.cabreraTL229 Jul 2025#106

Post #103 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Sample preparation for mass spectrometry can itself introduce modifications, particularly oxidation. A finding at trace level may be telling you about the preparation rather than the material.

23 likes 12mo
VS
v.salgadoTL230 Jul 2025#107
m.lehtinen, post #70: Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy. The step people skip is the one I have spelled out. Go to post

This settles it for me, at least until somebody posts a reason it should not.

6 likes in reply to #70 12mo
AA
an.adeyemiTL231 Jul 2025#108
t.steenkamp, post #47: Post #46 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. Adding a reference point for counter-ion content. Mine is a single case, collected without controls, and I am posting the method alongside it so it can be discounted appropriately. Go to post

An acylated peptide has a mass that reflects the modification, so comparing against the mass of the unmodified backbone gives a mismatch that is not an error.

Filing this under things that are true until someone shows me otherwise.

1 like in reply to #47 12mo
AK
a.kirchnerTL21 Aug 2025#109
MJayawardena, post #97: Noted, and thank you for writing it out rather than summarising it. Go to post

A mass match establishes that the measured mass is consistent with the proposed composition. It does not establish purity, sequence order, or the absence of an isomer, and all three are frequently claimed from it.

Adding a source would improve this post and I do not have one to hand.

2 likes in reply to #97 12mo

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