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Devices · Pens & autoinjectors

Second pass at: Pen dose counters: what a click does and does not guarantee

LP
l.piresTL212 Mar 2025#1

Second pass at: Pen dose counters: what a click does and does not guarantee — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

Two things I would like separated before anyone answers on Pen dose counters, because they get bundled and then argued about as one thing.

The first is descriptive: what has actually been observed, by whom, and how. The second is causal: why. I am asking about the first only.

33 likes 17mo
OV
o.vogelTL215 Mar 2025#2

Nothing here is medical advice, and pen technique is the single easiest thing to have demonstrated in person rather than learned from a description.

The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one.

7 likes 16mo
MD
m.duarteTL218 Mar 2025#3

Dose counters: pens show the remaining number of doses. When the counter reaches zero, the pen is empty and cannot deliver more. Noting the counter before injection prevents running out unexpectedly.

1 like 16mo
NN
n.norgaardTL220 Mar 2025#4

Pen mechanics: most pens are dial-and-inject devices where you dial the dose on the pen and push the button to inject. Understanding your specific pen's mechanism prevents dose errors.

0 likes 16mo
KP
k.perrinTL222 Mar 2025#5
l.pires, post #1: Second pass at: Pen dose counters: what a click does and does not guarantee — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Two things I would like separated before anyone answers on Pen dose counters, because they get bundled and then argued about as one thing. The first is descriptive: what has actually been… Go to post

Post #3 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Off-label dosing with a pen: if you want to deliver a dose different from the pen's pre-set steps (e.g., halfway between two step doses), that is off-label use. Some pens allow it; others do not. Confirm before attempting.

That is what the documentation says. What happens in practice is usually close.

12 likes in reply to #1 16mo
AB
a.batistaTL224 Mar 2025 · edited#6

Adding the measurement that post #3 says would settle it.

Priming: most pens require priming before the first use (injecting a small amount to fill the needle and line). Not priming can result in no dose being delivered on the first injection.

Marking that as an opinion rather than a finding.

4 likes 16mo
AN
a.nwosuTL226 Mar 2025#7

Reusability: some pens are single-use (throw away after one injection). Others can be reused until empty. Confirm which type you have. Reusing a single-use pen is ineffective because the mechanism does not reset.

I would put the burden of proof on the interesting explanation, not the dull one.

0 likes 16mo
RD
r.danquahTL228 Mar 2025#8

That is a fair summary of where the discussion has got to.

0 likes 16mo
SO
s.okaforTL230 Mar 2025#9
m.duarte, post #3: Dose counters: pens show the remaining number of doses. When the counter reaches zero, the pen is empty and cannot deliver more. Noting the counter before injection prevents running out unexpectedly. Go to post

Storage instructions for a pen typically differ before and after first use, and the in-use period is the one people miss. It is on the carton.

8 likes in reply to #3 16mo
RA
r.aldana_pharmdTL4Pharmacist1 Apr 2025#10
l.pires, post #1: Second pass at: Pen dose counters: what a click does and does not guarantee — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Two things I would like separated before anyone answers on Pen dose counters, because they get bundled and then argued about as one thing. The first is descriptive: what has actually been… Go to post

Picking up post #7: that is the part I would want checked first.

Needle changes between doses are specified for a reason and the reasons are dose accuracy and sterility rather than comfort alone.

2 likes in reply to #1 16mo
TW
t.wojcikTL23 Apr 2025#11
a.batista, post #6: Adding the measurement that post #3 says would settle it. Priming: most pens require priming before the first use (injecting a small amount to fill the needle and line). Not priming can result in no dose being delivered on the first injection. Marking that as an opinion rather than a finding. Go to post

Injection duration: most pens deliver the dose over several seconds. Holding the button down for the full duration ensures complete delivery. Releasing early can result in underdosing.

The disagreement above is smaller than it looks once the terms are fixed.

8 likes in reply to #6 16mo
FF
f.fonsecaTL24 Apr 2025#12

Storage after first use: most pens can be stored at room temperature after first use, even if unrefrigerated, for a limited time (often 28 days). Check your specific pen's labelling.

That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category.

19 likes 16mo
VB
v.bhattacharyaTL26 Apr 2025 · edited#13

Needle installation: some pens require a fresh needle for each injection; others have a single needle that stays attached. Check the design of your pen.

Caveat: everything above assumes the paperwork is what it says it is.

0 likes 16mo
JD
j.dahlbergTL28 Apr 2025#14

Everything in post #10 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Visibility of the dose: some pens allow you to see the insulin remaining; others do not. Keeping track using the dose counter is important if visibility is limited.

0 likes 16mo
AS
a.sorensenTL29 Apr 2025#15
r.aldana_pharmd, post #10: Picking up post #7: that is the part I would want checked first. Needle changes between doses are specified for a reason and the reasons are dose accuracy and sterility rather than comfort alone. Go to post

Pen confusion between compounds: if you are using multiple pens or alternating pens, confirming you have the correct pen before injection prevents administration errors. Check the label every time.

If that is already documented somewhere, ignore me and link it.

4 likes in reply to #10 16mo
SD
s.duarteTL211 Apr 2025#16
j.dahlberg, post #14: Everything in post #10 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have. Visibility of the dose: some pens allow you to see the insulin remaining; others do not. Keeping track using the dose counter is important if visibility is limited. Go to post

A pen delivers a fixed or dialled dose from a cartridge and is a metering device rather than simply a covered syringe. That is why dose changes are constrained to whatever the mechanism supports.

The strength of my opinion here exceeds the strength of my evidence.

13 likes in reply to #14 16mo
KH
ka.haddadTL212 Apr 2025#17

The arithmetic in post #16 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Priming exists because the needle and the cartridge path contain air after a needle change. Skipping it means the first fraction of the dose is not liquid.

27 likes 16mo
AS
a.salcedoTL3Regular14 Apr 2025#18

Thank you — that answers what I came here to find out.

0 likes 15mo
BI
blank_injectionTL2Analytical chemist15 Apr 2025#19
a.nwosu, post #7: Reusability: some pens are single-use (throw away after one injection). Others can be reused until empty. Confirm which type you have. Reusing a single-use pen is ineffective because the mechanism does not reset. I would put the burden of proof on the interesting explanation, not the dull one. Go to post

A pen taken straight from the refrigerator is uncomfortable to inject for the same reason a cold syringe is. Room temperature for a short while first is the standard advice.

18 likes in reply to #7 15mo
NV
n.villalobosTL217 Apr 2025#20
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GDashwoodTL3Regular18 Apr 2025#21
r.aldana_pharmd, post #10: Picking up post #7: that is the part I would want checked first. Needle changes between doses are specified for a reason and the reasons are dose accuracy and sterility rather than comfort alone. Go to post

Post #19 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

The click count on a dialled pen is a mechanical property of that pen and is not a universal unit. Counting clicks across two different devices is not a conversion.

13 likes in reply to #10 15mo
CH
ca.haddadTL220 Apr 2025#22
VK
v.klausenTL3Regular21 Apr 2025#23

Comparing cost per milligram between a pen and a vial ignores wastage, dead volume and the number of doses actually obtainable. Cost per delivered dose at your dose is the comparison that survives.

I have left out the parts I could not verify.

0 likes 15mo
EC
e.coelhoTL223 Apr 2025#24

A pen that has been dropped may not be visibly damaged and may not deliver accurately afterwards. Manufacturers say to replace rather than to test, and there is no test a user can do.

28 likes 15mo
BP
b.petrovTL224 Apr 2025#25

Post #23 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Disposal of a used pen is a sharps question even where the needle is retracted, and local rules vary more than people expect.

That much is documented. The rest is how I have interpreted it.

19 likes 15mo
SC
s.cardosoTL226 Apr 2025#26
r.aldana_pharmd, post #10: Picking up post #7: that is the part I would want checked first. Needle changes between doses are specified for a reason and the reasons are dose accuracy and sterility rather than comfort alone. Go to post

Reading the dose window rather than the dial position is worth the habit. On several devices the two do not correspond in the way you would guess.

Where I would look next, rather than where I would stop.

8 likes in reply to #10 15mo
GI
g.ibarraTL227 Apr 2025 · edited#27

Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating.

0 likes 15mo
JT
j.teixeiraTL228 Apr 2025#28

The arithmetic in post #26 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Travel with a pen raises a cold-chain question and a documentation question. The second is the one people forget until an airport.

0 likes 15mo
SK
s.kimaniTL230 Apr 2025#29
n.villalobos, post #20: Where I part company with post #19, and it is a narrow parting. The residual left in a cartridge at the end is deliberate overfill and is not a dose you are entitled to extract. Attempting to recover it is where accuracy goes. Go to post

A pen that will not dial to the intended dose is usually telling you the cartridge does not contain enough for it. That is a designed behaviour rather than a fault.

I checked the source rather than the summary, and they differ.

5 likes in reply to #20 15mo
NH
n.haddadTL21 May 2025#30

Thank you for the correction. I would rather find out here than later.

0 likes 15mo