Deload weeks matter more during a deficit than at maintenance because recovery is the limiting factor.
Not disagreeing with anyone above, just adding the bit I keep having to look up.
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Nutrition & Training · Resistance training · continued
Second pass at: Programming during a large energy deficit posts 61–90
This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.
f.kimani, post #60: This follows post #59 rather than contradicting it. Where training is new, the early gains are largely neural, which is why they can appear even during a deficit and do not indicate tissue change. Go to post
Post #59 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.
Performance usually declines somewhat during a substantial deficit, and expecting it to improve is the most common source of disappointment reported here.
Adding a source would improve this post and I do not have one to hand.
Strength and hypertrophy respond to different things, and preserving one during a deficit is a different objective from building the other.
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Maintaining load with reduced volume is a reasonable strategy during a deficit and appears in the published literature more than the reverse.
This has been discussed before and I could not find the thread, so, again.
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Reduced appetite makes fuelling a session harder, and that is a practical problem with practical solutions rather than a reason to stop.
It is a small point and it changes the answer, which is an awkward combination.
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j.habermann, post #7: Seconded. It reads as careful rather than confident, which is the right register. Go to post
Narrowing post #64, because the general version has more than one answer.
Adding what did not work for me on Programming during a large energy, since the failures never get written up and they are half the useful information.
Recovery: heavier training on a energy deficit and on a compound that slows gastric emptying requires attention to recovery (sleep, nutrition, stress). Recovery capacity declines with deficit, so training volume might need adjustment.
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Post #68 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.
Where the Programming during a large energy discussion usually stalls is that nobody wants to say "I do not know" and everyone is willing to say "it varies". Those are the same sentence with different clothes on.
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so.cardoso, post #13: Recovery: heavier training on a energy deficit and on a compound that slows gastric emptying requires attention to recovery (sleep, nutrition, stress). Recovery capacity declines with deficit, so training volume might need adjustment. A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations. Go to post
Post #69 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.
Two people in this thread mean different things by Programming during a large energy and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it.
A methods point on Programming during a large energy rather than a substantive one: if the comparison is not like for like, the difference you are measuring is the difference in method.
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Maintenance is the goal: preserving lean mass and strength during weight loss is the goal of resistance training in this context, not building new muscle. That goal is usually achievable with consistent, moderate training.
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pe.onwuka, post #6: Where I have landed on Programming during a large energy, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it. Go to post
Answering the question post #73 raises rather than the one it answers.
Maintenance phases are where most people report training going best, which is unsurprising and is worth saying to anybody struggling during loss.
The part I am sure of is shorter than the part I have written.
d.vestergaard, post #66: Reduced appetite makes fuelling a session harder, and that is a practical problem with practical solutions rather than a reason to stop. It is a small point and it changes the answer, which is an awkward combination. Go to post
The arithmetic in post #77 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.
Taking Programming during a large energy seriously for a moment rather than deflecting: the honest position is that the community has observations and no controlled comparison, and those two things support very different sentences.
Coming back to post #77, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.
My experience of Programming during a large energy contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.
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s.leclerc, post #49: Picking up post #46: that is the part I would want checked first. Machine-based work is often better tolerated when energy is low and is not inferior for this purpose. If it helps: the failure mode here is usually boring rather than dramatic. Go to post
Right — I had this wrong and I am glad to have read it before it mattered.
r.bruun, post #35: Post-weight-loss training: once weight loss is complete and energy deficit ends, training can shift to building again. The transition from preservation mode to building mode is real and worth planning. Go to post
Programming while losing weight quickly: realistic expectations are crucial. Strength often stays surprisingly stable; power output might decline slightly. Expecting gains during an energy deficit sets yourself up for disappointment.
Adaptation and plateau: if strength does not change for weeks, that is stability, not backsliding. Expecting continuous progress during weight loss is unrealistic.
Happy to be the one who is wrong here if it settles the question.
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I read post #81 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.
Recovery capacity falls with energy availability, so a programme that worked at maintenance may be too much during a large deficit.
Adding the caveat now so it does not have to be extracted later.
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ch.correia, post #46: A resistance stimulus during a deficit is the other half of the lean-tissue argument, and the evidence for it is reasonably strong. Small point, but it is the one that usually catches people. Go to post
Post-weight-loss training: once weight loss is complete and energy deficit ends, training can shift to building again. The transition from preservation mode to building mode is real and worth planning.
Speaking for myself and not for anyone else who has posted here.
A resistance stimulus during a deficit is the other half of the lean-tissue argument, and the evidence for it is reasonably strong.
The variance between people here is larger than the effect being discussed.
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Adding the measurement that post #86 says would settle it.
Cardiovascular work has its own benefits and is not a substitute for a resistance stimulus for this particular purpose.
Someone should write this up properly, and it should probably not be me.
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Post #89 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.
Post-weight-loss training: once weight loss is complete and energy deficit ends, training can shift to building again. The transition from preservation mode to building mode is real and worth planning.
Take it as a starting point and not as a specification.
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