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Evidence · Preprints

Tracking a preprint to publication: a worked example — the long version

PB
p.boatengTL213 May 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Tracking a preprint to publication: a worked example — the long version Everything below is what sits behind that.

A preprint question rather than a question about the finding in it.

The manuscript is on a preprint server, dated, with a version number I have written down. It has not been through review and the authors say so in the header. What I cannot work out is how much weight that leaves it carrying.

I would like the reasoning rather than a rule. "Wait for publication" is not usable when the publication may be two years away and the question is now.

0 likes 2.2y
HJ
h.jansenTL220 May 2024#2

Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Reading a preprint properly means doing some of the reviewer's job: methods first, then whether the analysis matches the plan, then the conclusion.

3 likes 2.2y
EF
erratum_fileTL3Regular26 May 2024#3

Picking up the opening post: that is the part I would want checked first.

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

15 likes 2.2y
AK
an.kirchnerTL231 May 2024#4
erratum_file, post #3: Picking up the opening post: that is the part I would want checked first. Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting. Go to post

If you cite a preprint in a maintained document here, the convention is to label it in the sentence and to note the check date. The document review will catch the update.

Written from notes rather than memory, which is why the numbers are specific.

30 likes in reply to #3 2.2y
GC
glossary_checkTL2Member4 Jun 2024#5

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

Small point, but it is the one that usually catches people.

0 likes 2.1y
SP
s.perrinTL28 Jun 2024#6

Where a preprint contradicts a published trial, the prior should favour the trial. Where it extends one, the preprint can be genuinely useful.

Worth one more sentence than it usually gets.

1 like 2.1y
CN
cohort_notesTL2Member12 Jun 2024#7
erratum_file, post #3: Picking up the opening post: that is the part I would want checked first. Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting. Go to post

I will take the caveat as seriously as the claim, which is the point of putting it there.

10 likes in reply to #3 2.1y
SK
s.kravchenkoTL216 Jun 2024#8
GF
gradient_fileTL2Member20 Jun 2024#9

Narrowing post #6, because the general version has more than one answer.

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

Not the answer, but possibly the question that gets there.

2 likes 2.1y
FE
f.espinozaTL224 Jun 2024#10

Version numbers on a preprint server matter. Citing version one of something now on version four is citing a document that has been superseded by its own authors.

I have kept the units in throughout, for the obvious reason.

9 likes 2.1y
GD
glossary_deskTL3Regular27 Jun 2024#11
s.perrin, post #6: Where a preprint contradicts a published trial, the prior should favour the trial. Where it extends one, the preprint can be genuinely useful. Worth one more sentence than it usually gets. Go to post

I read post #9 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

Not the whole picture, but the part of it I can speak to.

27 likes in reply to #6 2.1y
FP
f.piresTL21 Jul 2024#12

Post #9 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Building anything durable on a preprint means committing to rebuild it. That is a reasonable trade for a fast-moving question and it should be an explicit one.

That matches what I was told, which is not the same as knowing it.

13 likes 2.1y
N
NicolaidesTL3Regular4 Jul 2024#13

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

5 likes 2.1y
VS
v.stanescuTL28 Jul 2024#14
f.pires, post #12: Post #9 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Building anything durable on a preprint means committing to rebuild it. That is a reasonable trade for a fast-moving question and it should be an explicit one. That matches what I was told, which is not the same as knowing it. Go to post

Screening on a preprint server is minimal and is not review. It filters obvious problems and nothing more, which is what it is designed to do.

Noting that I have skin in this question and have tried to discount for it.

0 likes in reply to #12 2.1y
TF
taper_fileTL3Regular11 Jul 2024#15
cohort_notes, post #7: I will take the caveat as seriously as the claim, which is the point of putting it there. Go to post

This settles it for me, at least until somebody posts a reason it should not.

20 likes in reply to #7 2y
JL
j.lokkenTL214 Jul 2024#16

Narrowing post #13, because the general version has more than one answer.

A preprint that has been up for two years without appearing in a journal is telling you something, and it is not necessarily that the work is bad.

Happy to be the one who is wrong here if it settles the question.

9 likes 2y
D
DKwiatkowskiTL3Regular17 Jul 2024#17

The most useful convention this subcategory has: state the status, state the version, state the date you checked. Three short clauses and the citation stays honest.

2 likes 2y
DA
d.achebeTL221 Jul 2024 · edited#18

Peer review catches some things reliably — missing methods, unsupported conclusions, statistical mistakes of the obvious kind — and misses others routinely. Knowing which is which makes preprint reading easier.

0 likes 2y
BT
baseline_tableTL2Member24 Jul 2024#19
cohort_notes, post #7: I will take the caveat as seriously as the claim, which is the point of putting it there. Go to post

A preprint reporting a null result is more likely to stay a preprint, which biases the published literature and makes preprint servers more valuable rather than less.

14 likes in reply to #7 2y
AM
a.molnarTL227 Jul 2024#20
erratum_file, post #3: Picking up the opening post: that is the part I would want checked first. Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting. Go to post

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

5 likes in reply to #3 2y
GD
g.danquahTL230 Jul 2024#21

Narrowing post #18, because the general version has more than one answer.

Sample size and pre-registration are checkable in a preprint exactly as in a paper, and they carry the same weight.

On balance I think that is right, and I would not bet much on it.

20 likes 2y
B
BuchholzTL2Member2 Aug 2024#22
taper_file, post #15: This settles it for me, at least until somebody posts a reason it should not. Go to post

Everything in post #20 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

0 likes in reply to #15 2y
SP
s.perrinTL25 Aug 2024 · edited#23
p.boateng, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Tracking a preprint to publication: a worked example — the long version Everything below is what sits behind that. A preprint question rather than a question about the finding in it. The manuscript is on a preprint server, dated, with a version number I have written down. It has not been… Go to post

Retractions and corrections do not propagate well from preprint servers. A citation that was fine when made can quietly become wrong.

2 likes in reply to #1 2y
CN
cohort_notesTL2Member8 Aug 2024#24

Where numbers change between preprint and published version, the changes are not random. They tend toward a smaller effect and a more carefully hedged claim.

9 likes 2y
AK
an.kirchnerTL211 Aug 2024#25

Where a preprint's numbers are the basis of a claim being repeated here, someone should check whether the published version exists yet. That check is nearly always overdue.

The literature is thinner on this than the confidence in the thread implies.

14 likes 2y
GC
glossary_checkTL2Member14 Aug 2024#26
taper_file, post #15: This settles it for me, at least until somebody posts a reason it should not. Go to post

Thank you — that answers what I came here to find out.

29 likes in reply to #15 23mo
AV
a.vestergaardTL217 Aug 2024#27

Post #25 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

The part I am sure of is shorter than the part I have written.

0 likes 23mo
GD
glossary_deskTL3Regular19 Aug 2024#28

Version numbers on a preprint server matter. Citing version one of something now on version four is citing a document that has been superseded by its own authors.

5 likes 23mo
SH
s.hartmannTL222 Aug 2024#29

A preprint that has been up for two years without appearing in a journal is telling you something, and it is not necessarily that the work is bad.

0 likes 23mo
K
KForsbergTL2Member25 Aug 2024#30

Retractions and corrections do not propagate well from preprint servers. A citation that was fine when made can quietly become wrong.

Not a strong opinion, just a consistent one.

0 likes 23mo