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Evidence · Preprints · continued

Tracking a preprint to publication: a worked example — the long version posts 31–48

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

MS
m.silvaTL228 Aug 2024#31

Everything in post #27 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Peer review catches some things reliably — missing methods, unsupported conclusions, statistical mistakes of the obvious kind — and misses others routinely. Knowing which is which makes preprint reading easier.

Worth saying I have only my own numbers here, and n is small.

13 likes 23mo
CV
c.vermeulenTL231 Aug 2024#32
an.kirchner, post #4: If you cite a preprint in a maintained document here, the convention is to label it in the sentence and to note the check date. The document review will catch the update. Written from notes rather than memory, which is why the numbers are specific. Go to post

Helpful, and short, which on this subject is harder than long.

4 likes in reply to #4 23mo
LC
lu.cabreraTL22 Sep 2024 · edited#33

Where numbers change between preprint and published version, the changes are not random. They tend toward a smaller effect and a more carefully hedged claim.

One case, stated as one case.

0 likes 23mo
VS
v.salgadoTL25 Sep 2024#34

Where a preprint's numbers are the basis of a claim being repeated here, someone should check whether the published version exists yet. That check is nearly always overdue.

27 likes 23mo
JC
j.castellanosTL28 Sep 2024#35

Answering the question post #31 raises rather than the one it answers.

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

The right answer here may simply be that it has not been measured.

19 likes 23mo
JS
j.sorensenTL211 Sep 2024#36
s.kravchenko, post #8: Worth separating two things that post #6 runs together. A preprint with the data and code attached is frequently more checkable than a published paper without them. Reviewed and reproducible are different properties. Go to post

Sample size and pre-registration are checkable in a preprint exactly as in a paper, and they carry the same weight.

Stating my assumptions rather than smuggling them in.

8 likes in reply to #8 23mo
JM
j.mwangiTL4 Moderator13 Sep 2024#37
lu.cabrera, post #33: Where numbers change between preprint and published version, the changes are not random. They tend toward a smaller effect and a more carefully hedged claim. One case, stated as one case. Go to post

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

0 likes in reply to #33 22mo
SC
s.coelhoTL216 Sep 2024#38

A preprint reporting a null result is more likely to stay a preprint, which biases the published literature and makes preprint servers more valuable rather than less.

0 likes 22mo
PF
p.friskTL219 Sep 2024 · edited#39
g.danquah, post #21: Narrowing post #18, because the general version has more than one answer. Sample size and pre-registration are checkable in a preprint exactly as in a paper, and they carry the same weight. On balance I think that is right, and I would not bet much on it. Go to post

Useful. I have added it to my own notes with the date on it.

26 likes in reply to #21 22mo
VM
v.milanoviTL3Regular21 Sep 2024#40

Say it is a preprint in the first line rather than the last. Everything downstream depends on that status and readers arriving from search will not scroll for it.

12 likes 22mo
LE
logbook_erinTL3Regular24 Sep 2024#41
s.kravchenko, post #8: Worth separating two things that post #6 runs together. A preprint with the data and code attached is frequently more checkable than a published paper without them. Reviewed and reproducible are different properties. Go to post

Confirming post #40 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

23 likes in reply to #8 22mo
KO
k.okaforTL226 Sep 2024#42

I had written a reply contradicting post #38 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Where a preprint contradicts a published trial, the prior should favour the trial. Where it extends one, the preprint can be genuinely useful.

That is the shape of it. The detail is where I would expect to be corrected.

0 likes 22mo
JH
j.habermannTL3Regular29 Sep 2024#43

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

The general case is well covered; this is the awkward specific one.

1 like 22mo
NS
ni.stanescuTL22 Oct 2024#44
j.mwangi, post #37: Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised. Go to post

A preprint with the data and code attached is frequently more checkable than a published paper without them. Reviewed and reproducible are different properties.

6 likes in reply to #37 22mo
AF
a.finnegan_rdTL2Dietitian4 Oct 2024#45

Post #44 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Building anything durable on a preprint means committing to rebuild it. That is a reasonable trade for a fast-moving question and it should be an explicit one.

If anyone can point at the primary source I would be grateful.

31 likes 22mo
CV
c.vasquezTL27 Oct 2024#46

Reading a preprint properly means doing some of the reviewer's job: methods first, then whether the analysis matches the plan, then the conclusion.

None of the above is medical advice and I am not qualified to give any.

0 likes 22mo
CL
customs_ledgerTL3Regular9 Oct 2024#47

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

3 likes 22mo
PO
p.ostergaardTL212 Oct 2024 · edited#48
c.vasquez, post #46: Reading a preprint properly means doing some of the reviewer's job: methods first, then whether the analysis matches the plan, then the conclusion. None of the above is medical advice and I am not qualified to give any. Go to post

On post #46 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

If you cite a preprint in a maintained document here, the convention is to label it in the sentence and to note the check date. The document review will catch the update.

10 likes in reply to #46 22mo

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