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Analytics · Method validation

Validating a method you did not develop — does this still hold?

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Solved by footnote_entry in post #5
Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it. The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative.

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AA
a.almeidaTL210 Feb 2025#1

Validating a method you did not develop — does this still hold? I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below.

Validating a method, and specifically the version of it that the documentation does not cover. The maintained page handles the general case well and stops exactly where my question starts.

Setting out the gap in case it is a gap in the page rather than a gap in what is known.

0 likes 18mo
EF
e.ferreiraTL3Regular11 Feb 2025 · edited#2

System suitability is the ongoing evidence that a validated method is still performing. Validation is done once; suitability is done every run, and it is the one that appears on a certificate.

The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one.

28 likes 18mo
NR
n.rowntreeTL3Regular11 Feb 2025#3

Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together.

Robustness: the method gives consistent results when minor parameters vary. Tested by deliberately varying pH, temperature, flow rate, and mobile phase composition within reasonable ranges and demonstrating that results stay within acceptance.

I would put the burden of proof on the interesting explanation, not the dull one.

9 likes 18mo
RB
r.bakkenTL212 Feb 2025#4
e.ferreira, post #2: System suitability is the ongoing evidence that a validated method is still performing. Validation is done once; suitability is done every run, and it is the one that appears on a certificate. The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one. Go to post

Fair, and the limits you put on it are the part I will remember.

2 likes in reply to #2 17mo
FE
footnote_entryTL3Regular Solution12 Feb 2025#5

Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it.

The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative.

7 likes 17mo
KK
k.kuuselaTL213 Feb 2025#6

Specificity is the first question: does the method separate the analyte from everything reasonably expected to be present? A method that has not been challenged with its own degradation products has not answered it.

The mechanism is plausible, which is not the same as established.

21 likes 17mo
TN
t.nardoneTL3Regular13 Feb 2025#7

An independent laboratory's method being different from the supplier's is not a discrepancy. It becomes one only when the results differ by more than both methods' demonstrated precision.

5 likes 17mo
NA
n.achebeTL213 Feb 2025#8
footnote_entry, post #5: Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it. The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative. Go to post

Picking up post #5: that is the part I would want checked first.

Linearity across the working range is a routine demonstration and it constrains how far a result can be extrapolated. A method linear from 80 to 120 per cent of nominal says nothing about a sample at ten per cent.

0 likes in reply to #5 17mo
TD
titration_diaryTL314 Feb 2025#9
HF
h.falkTL214 Feb 2025#10

Adding a small correction to the Validating a method summary above rather than a disagreement with it. The substance holds; one of the figures is out by a factor that matters.

14 likes 17mo
JT
j.teixeiraTL215 Feb 2025#11

Accuracy: the method measures what you intend to measure. For purity methods, this is tested by spike-and-recover experiments: add a known amount of impurity to a sample and measure whether you recover the added amount.

Anyone who has looked at this more carefully, please correct the record.

21 likes 17mo
GI
g.ibarraTL215 Feb 2025#12

Post #8 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Robustness testing deliberately varies the parameters most likely to drift — organic percentage, pH, temperature, flow — and shows the result does not. It is the part of validation that predicts whether a method will transfer.

I would be interested in a counterexample if anyone has one.

0 likes 17mo
SC
s.cardosoTL215 Feb 2025#13
BP
b.petrovTL216 Feb 2025#14
e.ferreira, post #2: System suitability is the ongoing evidence that a validated method is still performing. Validation is done once; suitability is done every run, and it is the one that appears on a certificate. The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one. Go to post

Same experience here, different supplier, so it is at least not unique to one of them.

9 likes in reply to #2 17mo
JN
j.nwosuTL216 Feb 2025#15
n.achebe, post #8: Picking up post #5: that is the part I would want checked first. Linearity across the working range is a routine demonstration and it constrains how far a result can be extrapolated. A method linear from 80 to 120 per cent of nominal says nothing about a sample at ten per cent. Go to post

Post #12 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Limits of detection and quantitation: LOD is the lowest concentration that produces a signal above background. LOQ is the lowest concentration at which the method meets precision and accuracy acceptance criteria. Both are determined empirically.

That holds under the stated conditions and I have stated them.

15 likes in reply to #8 17mo
NS
n.stanescuTL216 Feb 2025#16

Where I part company with post #12, and it is a narrow parting.

Validation is compound-specific and matrix-specific. A method validated for one peptide is a starting point for another and not a validated method for it.

30 likes 17mo
NH
n.haddadTL217 Feb 2025 · edited#17

The practical version of Validating a method is three sentences long. The rigorous version is three pages and reaches the same conclusion with the conditions attached.

1 like 17mo
SK
s.kimaniTL217 Feb 2025#18

The distinction between a qualified instrument and a validated method is worth keeping. Both are needed and they fail in different ways.

Same conclusion as the reply above, reached differently, which is mildly reassuring.

6 likes 17mo
FI
f.ibarraTL217 Feb 2025#19
footnote_entry, post #5: Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it. The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative. Go to post

Adding a data point of agreement rather than a data point.

1 like in reply to #5 17mo
O
OkaforTL3Regular18 Feb 2025 · edited#20

Whatever the answer on Validating a method turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction.

6 likes 17mo
AP
au.pereiraTL218 Feb 2025#21
g.ibarra, post #12: Post #8 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Robustness testing deliberately varies the parameters most likely to drift — organic percentage, pH, temperature, flow — and shows the result does not. It is the part of validation that predicts whether a method will transfer. I would be interested in a counterexample… Go to post

A stability-indicating method is one demonstrated to resolve the analyte from its degradation products, usually through forced degradation. Calling a method stability-indicating without that work is a claim rather than a property.

17 likes in reply to #12 17mo
TY
two_year_lineTL3Regular18 Feb 2025#22
n.achebe, post #8: Picking up post #5: that is the part I would want checked first. Linearity across the working range is a routine demonstration and it constrains how far a result can be extrapolated. A method linear from 80 to 120 per cent of nominal says nothing about a sample at ten per cent. Go to post

Appreciated. The plain phrasing does more work here than a longer post would.

7 likes in reply to #8 17mo
KP
k.pereiraTL219 Feb 2025#23

A method transferred between laboratories needs a demonstration that it performs equivalently, not just a document describing it. Transfer is where a great many between-laboratory disagreements originate.

The literature is thinner on this than the confidence in the thread implies.

1 like 17mo
MM
maintenance_modeTL3Regular19 Feb 2025 · edited#24

Picking up post #21: that is the part I would want checked first.

Specificity: the method can distinguish the intended compound from related impurities and degradation products. Tested by comparing results on pure compounds, mixtures of compounds, and degraded samples.

If this contradicts something upthread, the upthread version may well be the better one.

0 likes 17mo
HB
h.brandtTL219 Feb 2025#25
g.ibarra, post #12: Post #8 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Robustness testing deliberately varies the parameters most likely to drift — organic percentage, pH, temperature, flow — and shows the result does not. It is the part of validation that predicts whether a method will transfer. I would be interested in a counterexample… Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #21 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

The reason Validating a method keeps being re-asked is that the answer is conditional and people quote it without the condition. It is not that the answer is unknown.

12 likes in reply to #12 17mo
RV
r.venkatesanTL3Wiki editor20 Feb 2025#26

Where a pharmacopoeial monograph exists, a method that follows it inherits a great deal of assurance. Almost nothing discussed here has one.

4 likes 17mo
NK
ni.kravchenkoTL220 Feb 2025#27

Stability-indicating method: one that can separate a compound from its degradation products. Critical for assay methods that claim to measure actual degradation (as opposed to purity, which is orthogonal).

0 likes 17mo
IS
isotonic_sheetTL3Regular20 Feb 2025#28

A method that reports the same number for every lot is worth a second look. Real processes vary, and a total absence of variation is a statement about the measurement rather than the process.

The number is defensible. The precision I gave it is not.

0 likes 17mo
RS
r.sobczakTL221 Feb 2025#29

Documented validation is what separates a number from an opinion expressed numerically. That is the whole reason to ask for the procedure identifier rather than the method name.

The strength of my opinion here exceeds the strength of my evidence.

32 likes 17mo
R
RodriguesTL3Regular21 Feb 2025#30
footnote_entry, post #5: Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it. The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative. Go to post

Narrowing post #29, because the general version has more than one answer.

Transfer between laboratories: a method can be transferred from one lab to another, but the receiving lab needs to demonstrate that they can achieve the same performance. This requires comparative testing and sometimes small method refinements.

If that is already documented somewhere, ignore me and link it.

17 likes in reply to #5 17mo