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Analytics · Method validation · continued

Validating a method you did not develop — does this still hold? posts 91–120

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

OB
owen.bradyTL4 Moderator9 Mar 2025#91
au.pereira, post #21: A stability-indicating method is one demonstrated to resolve the analyte from its degradation products, usually through forced degradation. Calling a method stability-indicating without that work is a claim rather than a property. Go to post

The version of Validating a method that I was taught turned out to be a teaching simplification. Useful, and not true in the way I had assumed it was.

1 like in reply to #21 17mo
NS
n.silvaTL29 Mar 2025 · edited#92

I read post #88 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Accuracy: the method measures what you intend to measure. For purity methods, this is tested by spike-and-recover experiments: add a known amount of impurity to a sample and measure whether you recover the added amount.

6 likes 17mo
MH
ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist9 Mar 2025#93

A method transferred between laboratories needs a demonstration that it performs equivalently, not just a document describing it. Transfer is where a great many between-laboratory disagreements originate.

I would call that likely rather than established.

22 likes 17mo
EI
e.iyerTL210 Mar 2025#94

Forced degradation studies: deliberately stress the material with acid, base, oxidant, heat, light to generate degradation products and demonstrate that the method can separate them from the parent peak. Acceptance is that the method is stability-indicating.

Correct me on the arithmetic if it is wrong; I would rather know.

0 likes 17mo
DV
dr.villanuevaTL3Physician10 Mar 2025#95
b.vestergaard, post #32: Reporting a result to more decimal places than the method's precision supports is a small dishonesty that appears everywhere. A method with a two per cent relative standard deviation does not support a figure quoted to a hundredth. Go to post

Narrowing post #94, because the general version has more than one answer.

Reporting a result to more decimal places than the method's precision supports is a small dishonesty that appears everywhere. A method with a two per cent relative standard deviation does not support a figure quoted to a hundredth.

0 likes in reply to #32 17mo
SG
s.grimaldiTL210 Mar 2025#96
ni.stanescu, post #53: The arithmetic in post #50 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check. The limit of quantitation determines what the impurity table can honestly contain. Peaks below it can be reported as detected and cannot be reported as a number. That matches what I was told, which is not the same as knowing it. Go to post

Everything in post #92 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Limits of detection and quantitation: LOD is the lowest concentration that produces a signal above background. LOQ is the lowest concentration at which the method meets precision and accuracy acceptance criteria. Both are determined empirically.

None of the above is medical advice and I am not qualified to give any.

3 likes in reply to #53 17mo
SC
sourced_claimsTL3Regular10 Mar 2025#97

Validation is compound-specific and matrix-specific. A method validated for one peptide is a starting point for another and not a validated method for it.

The general case is well covered; this is the awkward specific one.

15 likes 17mo
RB
r.bruunTL210 Mar 2025#98

Why two laboratories may disagree: after validating the same method, they may still report different purity on the same sample due to integration differences, column age differences, subtle differences in mobile phase pH or temperature. This is normal and not a sign that one is wrong.

31 likes 17mo
HO
h.oyelowoTL2Regular11 Mar 2025#99

Accuracy: the method measures what you intend to measure. For purity methods, this is tested by spike-and-recover experiments: add a known amount of impurity to a sample and measure whether you recover the added amount.

Not a strong opinion, just a consistent one.

5 likes 17mo
MR
m.radichTL211 Mar 2025#100

Robustness testing deliberately varies the parameters most likely to drift — organic percentage, pH, temperature, flow — and shows the result does not. It is the part of validation that predicts whether a method will transfer.

That is the shape of it. The detail is where I would expect to be corrected.

15 likes 17mo
K
KLindqvistTL4 Moderator11 Mar 2025#101

Limits of detection and quantitation: LOD is the lowest concentration that produces a signal above background. LOQ is the lowest concentration at which the method meets precision and accuracy acceptance criteria. Both are determined empirically.

9 likes 17mo
KL
k.laurentTL211 Mar 2025#102

Clear enough that I do not think I have a follow-up, which is unusual.

21 likes 17mo
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist12 Mar 2025 · edited#103

Narrowing post #100, because the general version has more than one answer.

Transfer between laboratories: a method can be transferred from one lab to another, but the receiving lab needs to demonstrate that they can achieve the same performance. This requires comparative testing and sometimes small method refinements.

Genuinely open to being wrong about this one.

0 likes 17mo
HV
h.vargaTL212 Mar 2025#104
b.osei, post #73: The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it. For what it is worth, the same held on the two occasions I checked. Go to post

My understanding of Validating a method is a few years old and may have been superseded. If it has been, I would genuinely like to know rather than keep repeating it.

1 like in reply to #73 17mo
VS
v.szaboTL3Analytical chemist12 Mar 2025#105

Taking post #104 at face value and following it one step further.

Robustness: the method gives consistent results when minor parameters vary. Tested by deliberately varying pH, temperature, flow rate, and mobile phase composition within reasonable ranges and demonstrating that results stay within acceptance.

Caveat: everything above assumes the paperwork is what it says it is.

5 likes 17mo
NO
n.oseiTL212 Mar 2025#106

Post #103 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

System suitability is the ongoing evidence that a validated method is still performing. Validation is done once; suitability is done every run, and it is the one that appears on a certificate.

I am confident about the direction and much less about the magnitude.

15 likes 17mo
PM
physio_marchettiTL2Physiotherapist13 Mar 2025#107

Forced degradation studies: deliberately stress the material with acid, base, oxidant, heat, light to generate degradation products and demonstrate that the method can separate them from the parent peak. Acceptance is that the method is stability-indicating.

I would want to see it done twice before believing it once.

30 likes 17mo
MN
m.nascimentoTL213 Mar 2025#108
methods_margin, post #87: Post #83 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. I read the earlier replies on Validating a method twice before writing this, because I had assumed the opposite and wanted to be sure I was disagreeing with what was said rather than what I expected. Go to post

A method transferred between laboratories needs a demonstration that it performs equivalently, not just a document describing it. Transfer is where a great many between-laboratory disagreements originate.

0 likes in reply to #87 17mo
EK
e.kimaniTL213 Mar 2025#109
j.nwosu, post #15: Post #12 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. Limits of detection and quantitation: LOD is the lowest concentration that produces a signal above background. LOQ is the lowest concentration at which the method meets precision and accuracy acceptance criteria. Both are determined empirically. That holds under the… Go to post

Sensible. I would want the same detail before I acted on it either.

20 likes in reply to #15 17mo
SS
s.silvaTL213 Mar 2025#110

Offering a way to settle Validating a method rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision.

0 likes 17mo
IA
i.almeidaTL213 Mar 2025 · edited#111
bias_variance, post #70: The useful distinction on Validating a method is between what was measured and what was inferred from it. Both end up in the same sentence and only one of them has error bars. Go to post

I read post #110 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

An independent laboratory's method being different from the supplier's is not a discrepancy. It becomes one only when the results differ by more than both methods' demonstrated precision.

It took me longer than it should have to see that.

5 likes in reply to #70 16mo
OO
orbitrap_olaTL3Mass spectrometrist14 Mar 2025#112

Linearity across the working range is a routine demonstration and it constrains how far a result can be extrapolated. A method linear from 80 to 120 per cent of nominal says nothing about a sample at ten per cent.

0 likes 16mo
OV
o.vukovicTL214 Mar 2025#113
SK
s.karlsen_rphTL3Pharmacist14 Mar 2025#114

That is the distinction I keep failing to hold on to. Written down now.

20 likes 16mo
PO
p.ostergaardTL214 Mar 2025#115

Everything in post #112 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Range: the concentration range over which the method has been validated. Going outside the validated range is going outside the method's demonstrated performance.

Adding the caveat now so it does not have to be extracted later.

2 likes 16mo
CL
customs_ledgerTL3Regular15 Mar 2025#116

Narrowing post #115, because the general version has more than one answer.

I would keep Validating a method and the decision it usually gets used for separate in this thread. They are related and they are not the same question, and merging them is why the last one went badly.

0 likes 16mo
CV
c.vasquezTL215 Mar 2025#117

Precision and repeatability: within-run and between-run variability of the method. Acceptance criterion is typically a relative standard deviation of ≤2% for area measurements.

28 likes 16mo
DS
dr_seongTL3Physician15 Mar 2025#118
Nardone, post #89: Robustness testing deliberately varies the parameters most likely to drift — organic percentage, pH, temperature, flow — and shows the result does not. It is the part of validation that predicts whether a method will transfer. Two sources, same conclusion, and I could not rule out that one copied the other. Go to post

Reporting a result to more decimal places than the method's precision supports is a small dishonesty that appears everywhere. A method with a two per cent relative standard deviation does not support a figure quoted to a hundredth.

14 likes in reply to #89 16mo
KS
k.salinasTL215 Mar 2025#119

Stability-indicating method: one that can separate a compound from its degradation products. Critical for assay methods that claim to measure actual degradation (as opposed to purity, which is orthogonal).

I would want the raw data before agreeing with my own summary of it.

13 likes 16mo
ME
me.eriksenTL215 Mar 2025#120

The arithmetic in post #117 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

A method that reports the same number for every lot is worth a second look. Real processes vary, and a total absence of variation is a statement about the measurement rather than the process.

One more caveat and then I will stop qualifying: the sample selected itself.

4 likes 16mo