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Cold packs, phase-change material, and what survives ten days

JS
j.sorensenTL27 Jun 2024#1

Cold packs, phase-change material, and what survives ten days — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

I have spent a fortnight trying to pin cold packs down and I want to set out where I have got to, because I suspect the honest answer is duller than the thread this will produce.

What I have: a consistent observation across a small number of cases, collected the same way each time. What I do not have: any controlled comparison, or any reason to think my cases are representative.

The specific question is whether the pattern survives once the obvious confounder is removed. I cannot remove it with what I have.

35 likes 2.1y
O
OTeixeiraTL3Regular8 Jun 2024#2

Adding a data point of agreement rather than a data point.

8 likes 2.1y
SO
s.oyelaranTL28 Jun 2024#3

Cold packs has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet.

2 likes 2.1y
BP
bench_peakTL3Regular9 Jun 2024#4
j.sorensen, post #1: Cold packs, phase-change material, and what survives ten days — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. I have spent a fortnight trying to pin cold packs down and I want to set out where I have got to, because I suspect the honest answer is duller than the thread this will produce. What I have: a consistent… Go to post

Import restrictions by jurisdiction: what is legal to import for personal use varies enormously by country. Some jurisdictions are quite permissive; others are not. Checking your own country's rules before ordering is prudent.

That is all I can say without guessing.

0 likes in reply to #1 2.1y
SB
s.beaulieuTL210 Jun 2024 · edited#5

The reason cold packs is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent.

13 likes 2.1y
GH
g.haalandTL3Regular10 Jun 2024#6

Taking post #3 at face value and following it one step further.

Anyone deciding whether a delay is a problem should ask what would change if they waited another week. Usually the answer is nothing.

4 likes 2.1y
TV
to.vargaTL211 Jun 2024#7

Everything in post #3 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Photographing the parcel on arrival before opening it takes ten seconds and is the difference between a report and a recollection.

0 likes 2.1y
CD
cohort_driftTL3Regular11 Jun 2024#8
OTeixeira, post #2: Adding a data point of agreement rather than a data point. Go to post

My understanding of cold packs is a few years old and may have been superseded. If it has been, I would genuinely like to know rather than keep repeating it.

0 likes in reply to #2 2.1y
AK
ar.kravchenkoTL212 Jun 2024#9
FE
footnote_entryTL3Regular12 Jun 2024#10

Document outcomes rather than forecasting them. A forecast in this category reads as reassurance and is not one.

Genuinely open to being wrong about this one.

18 likes 2.1y
BN
b.nilsenTL213 Jun 2024#11

Practical experience of cold packs, offered as one case with the conditions stated, not as a general finding. Conditions first, because they are what make it interpretable.

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MR
m.rasmussenTL213 Jun 2024 · edited#12
footnote_entry, post #10: Document outcomes rather than forecasting them. A forecast in this category reads as reassurance and is not one. Genuinely open to being wrong about this one. Go to post

I would be cautious about generalising from the cold packs example above. It is a good example. It is one example.

0 likes in reply to #10 2.1y
MA
m.achebeTL214 Jun 2024#13

Delivery to an address where somebody is present is worth more for cold-chain material than any packing decision available to the supplier.

The rule of thumb is fine; the edge cases are where it earns its keep.

3 likes 2.1y
NP
n.petrovTL214 Jun 2024#14

Post #10 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Split shipments reduce single-point risk and increase the number of transits. Which trade is right depends on what you are protecting against.

10 likes 2.1y
TA
t.abubakarTL215 Jun 2024#15

Reading rather than answering, but this is the post I would point somebody at.

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VK
v.krastevTL215 Jun 2024#16
t.abubakar, post #15: Reading rather than answering, but this is the post I would point somebody at. Go to post

Nothing in this subcategory is legal advice, and the legal position on importing research-use-only material varies by jurisdiction and is yours to establish.

I am aware this is the third time this month I have made this point.

0 likes in reply to #15 2.1y
KH
k.haddadTL215 Jun 2024#17

Building on post #16 rather than restating it.

Peak periods and public holidays affect this more than any other factor and are entirely predictable in advance.

1 like 2.1y
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PSkarbekTL3Regular16 Jun 2024#18

Post #14 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

An observation about cold packs that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

6 likes 2.1y
AH
a.hartmannTL216 Jun 2024#19

Confirming post #16 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

At what point is a parcel genuinely a problem: if it was despatched weeks ago and there has been no update for days at customs, it might be held or lost. Days of delay at customs without update is ordinary; weeks without movement warrants inquiry.

16 likes 2.1y
BM
buffer_marginTL317 Jun 2024#20
PL
p.lindqvistTL217 Jun 2024#21

Post #19 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Insurance and carrier liability: most parcel carriers limit liability. Understanding the limits before choosing a carrier matters if you are shipping expensive material.

0 likes 2.1y
CE
crossover_entryTL3Regular18 Jun 2024#22
s.beaulieu, post #5: The reason cold packs is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent. Go to post

Adding the measurement that post #19 says would settle it.

Cold packs and temperature control: inclusion of cold packs at despatch is standard. Whether they maintain temperature through transit depends on journey duration and ambient temperature. Long journeys through warm climates put product at risk.

It is the kind of thing that is obvious once and never again.

0 likes in reply to #5 2.1y
BW
br.wikstromTL218 Jun 2024#23
crossover_entry, post #22: Adding the measurement that post #19 says would settle it. Cold packs and temperature control: inclusion of cold packs at despatch is standard. Whether they maintain temperature through transit depends on journey duration and ambient temperature. Long journeys through warm climates put product at risk. It is the kind of thing that is… Go to post

Distinguishing three things in the cold packs discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both.

13 likes in reply to #22 2.1y
GR
gradient_reviewTL218 Jun 2024#24
RN
r.novakTL219 Jun 2024#25

On post #23 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Import restrictions by jurisdiction: what is legal to import for personal use varies enormously by country. Some jurisdictions are quite permissive; others are not. Checking your own country's rules before ordering is prudent.

That is the honest state of it as of this week.

2 likes 2.1y
OA
o.abrahamsenTL3Regular19 Jun 2024#26

I think the cold packs question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

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MN
m.nwosuTL219 Jun 2024#27
s.oyelaran, post #3: Cold packs has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet. Go to post

Tracking stops updating: tracking last updated days ago usually means the package is in transit and will not update until it reaches the next scanning point. No update for weeks means it might be stuck.

19 likes in reply to #3 2.1y
EK
e.kjeldsenTL2Member20 Jun 2024 · edited#28

Appreciated. The plain phrasing does more work here than a longer post would.

8 likes 2.1y
AZ
an.zamoraTL220 Jun 2024#29

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about cold packs than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

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RodriguesTL3Regular21 Jun 2024#30

The most useful thing anyone has posted about cold packs in this category was a table of what had been measured and by whom. That is what I would want again.

0 likes 2.1y