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Nutrition & Training · Hydration & electrolytes · continued

Second pass at: Sodium, potassium and magnesium when intake drops posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

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n.rahimiTL28 Aug 2024 · edited#31

Orthostatic symptoms: dizziness on standing after lying down can indicate dehydration or electrolyte depletion. Increasing fluids, salt, and potassium usually resolves it.

Second-hand, so weight it accordingly.

30 likes 2y
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l.dziedzicTL29 Aug 2024#32
m.radich, post #22: Lab testing: if symptoms are severe or persistent, checking electrolytes and minerals (sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium) and interpreting them in context of losses during weight loss is reasonable. If that is already documented somewhere, ignore me and link it. Go to post

I read post #30 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Constipation and hydration: dehydration makes constipation worse. Increasing fluid intake is the first intervention for constipation alongside other measures.

0 likes in reply to #22 2y
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e.ferrariTL29 Aug 2024#33

Taking post #32 at face value and following it one step further.

I think the Sodium question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

3 likes 2y
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p.amankwahTL210 Aug 2024#34

Reduced intake reduces electrolyte intake alongside everything else, which is the mechanism behind most of what gets attributed to the compound here.

10 likes 2y
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KLindqvistTL4 Moderator11 Aug 2024#35

Commercial rehydration formulations are designed for a specific purpose and are not equivalent to a sports drink, whatever the marketing suggests.

Reading it again, the caveat matters more than the finding.

0 likes 2y
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c.tullochTL211 Aug 2024#36
m.radich, post #22: Lab testing: if symptoms are severe or persistent, checking electrolytes and minerals (sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium) and interpreting them in context of losses during weight loss is reasonable. If that is already documented somewhere, ignore me and link it. Go to post

Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is.

1 like in reply to #22 2y
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n.lehtinenTL212 Aug 2024#37

Building on post #35 rather than restating it.

Potassium: similar to sodium; losing weight involves some potassium loss. Bananas, sweet potatoes, and other potassium-rich foods help. Severe depletion is rare but symptomatic (weakness, palpitations).

This has been discussed before and I could not find the thread, so, again.

6 likes 2y
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a.ibarraTL213 Aug 2024#38

Post #34 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about Sodium than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

15 likes 23mo
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b.friskTL213 Aug 2024#39

The arithmetic in post #37 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

The useful distinction on Sodium is between what was measured and what was inferred from it. Both end up in the same sentence and only one of them has error bars.

0 likes 23mo
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buffer_sheetTL3Regular14 Aug 2024#40

Adding salt to food is the intervention most consistently reported as helping and is also the one least likely to cause harm.

It is worth stating the boring hypothesis before the interesting one.

2 likes 23mo
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b.vanheckeTL215 Aug 2024#41

Orthostatic symptoms: dizziness on standing after lying down can indicate dehydration or electrolyte depletion. Increasing fluids, salt, and potassium usually resolves it.

One more caveat and then I will stop qualifying: the sample selected itself.

18 likes 23mo
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chromatogramTL4Analytical chemist15 Aug 2024 · edited#42
Okafor, post #7: Supplementing without measuring is the default approach described here and it carries its own risks, particularly for potassium. Go to post

Supplementing without measuring is the default approach described here and it carries its own risks, particularly for potassium.

7 likes in reply to #7 23mo
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e.kuuselaTL216 Aug 2024#43
buffer_sheet, post #40: Adding salt to food is the intervention most consistently reported as helping and is also the one least likely to cause harm. It is worth stating the boring hypothesis before the interesting one. Go to post

Understood. Thank you for being specific about the limits of it.

0 likes in reply to #40 23mo
JM
j.mwangiTL4 Moderator17 Aug 2024#44

Rapid correction of a genuine abnormality can be more dangerous than the abnormality, which is another reason this belongs in clinical hands.

The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative.

0 likes 23mo
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y.rahimiTL217 Aug 2024#45

Sodium is one of those subjects where the general answer and the answer for a specific case diverge, and the thread will go in circles until someone says which one is being asked for.

25 likes 23mo
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preregisteredTL3Research methods18 Aug 2024#46
appeals_desk, post #13: Picking up post #10: that is the part I would want checked first. The thing about Sodium that took me longest to accept is that a plausible mechanism is not evidence of an effect. It is a reason to look, not a result. Go to post

Confirming post #44 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Sodium intake often falls sharply when processed food intake falls, and that transition is abrupt rather than gradual for many people.

12 likes in reply to #13 23mo
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r.petrovTL218 Aug 2024#47

Fluid intake: baseline needs increase with gastrointestinal effects and exercise. Thirst is not a reliable guide during appetite suppression. Drinking regularly (not just when thirsty) is prudent.

A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations.

1 like 23mo
PE
ppm_errorTL3Analytical chemist19 Aug 2024#48

The very ordinary causes of week-two malaise: inadequate hydration, low sodium intake, too-rapid calorie deficit, and inadequate sleep are more common causes of fatigue and malaise than compound toxicity.

0 likes 23mo
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v.salgadoTL220 Aug 2024#49
ms_holloway, post #29: On post #25 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Adding a small correction to the Sodium summary above rather than a disagreement with it. The substance holds; one of the figures is out by a factor that matters. Go to post

Everything in post #47 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Before the thread moves on from Sodium — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred.

0 likes in reply to #29 23mo
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in.guerreroTL220 Aug 2024#50
fr.translation_mo, post #19: Narrowing post #17, because the general version has more than one answer. The number people quote for Sodium is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own. Go to post

Narrowing post #47, because the general version has more than one answer.

Two things can be true about Sodium at once: the mechanism is plausible and the evidence for the size of the effect is thin. Most of the argument here is people defending the first against attacks on the second.

17 likes in reply to #19 23mo
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KForsbergTL2Member21 Aug 2024 · edited#51

Fair, and the limits you put on it are the part I will remember.

27 likes 23mo
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k.kimaniTL222 Aug 2024#52
septum_check, post #5: I read the opening post twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Where a laboratory result exists, quoting it with the reference interval makes the discussion tractable. Without it the thread is guesswork. I would be glad to be shown a cleaner way of putting this. Go to post

Coming back to post #48, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Reduced intake reduces electrolyte intake alongside everything else, which is the mechanism behind most of what gets attributed to the compound here.

Not the whole picture, but the part of it I can speak to.

0 likes in reply to #5 23mo
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f.fenwickTL3Regular22 Aug 2024#53

Lab testing: if symptoms are severe or persistent, checking electrolytes and minerals (sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium) and interpreting them in context of losses during weight loss is reasonable.

Noting that I have skin in this question and have tried to discount for it.

4 likes 23mo
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l.aguirreTL223 Aug 2024#54

Sodium: losing weight involves losing some sodium. Electrolyte drinks or salty foods help maintain sodium balance. Very low sodium intake on these compounds raises orthostatic symptoms risk.

13 likes 23mo
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r.friskTL223 Aug 2024#55

Post #54 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Fluid intake and electrolyte intake are separate questions and drinking more water alone can make a dilutional problem worse.

Happy to be the one who is wrong here if it settles the question.

20 likes 23mo
HF
h.ferrariTL224 Aug 2024#56
h.lindqvist, post #12: Baseline measurements before a substantial change in intake give you something to compare against, and almost nobody has them. Correct me on the arithmetic if it is wrong; I would rather know. Go to post

I read post #52 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Constipation and hydration: dehydration makes constipation worse. Increasing fluid intake is the first intervention for constipation alongside other measures.

Adding the caveat now so it does not have to be extracted later.

0 likes in reply to #12 23mo
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e.lehtinenTL225 Aug 2024#57
a.adeyemi, post #24: Building on post #21 rather than restating it. Symptoms attributed to electrolytes here are non-specific and overlap with dehydration, low intake and poor sleep. Attribution from symptoms alone is unreliable. Go to post

Since Sodium keeps coming up, it should probably be a maintained page rather than a recurring thread. I am happy to draft it if someone with more direct experience will review it.

2 likes in reply to #24 23mo
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b.aaltoTL225 Aug 2024#58
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bac_waterTL2Regular26 Aug 2024#59

Narrowing post #57, because the general version has more than one answer.

Magnesium supplementation is widely recommended in this space with very little supporting evidence for the indications it is recommended for.

I have written this out at length because the short version keeps being misread.

0 likes 23mo
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s.zamoraTL226 Aug 2024#60

Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating.

2 likes 23mo