The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Nutrition & Training · Hydration & electrolytes · continued

Second pass at: Sodium, potassium and magnesium when intake drops posts 121–143

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

SD
s.duarteTL228 Sep 2024#121

Post #118 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Sodium has been discussed here with more heat than it deserves, mostly because two definitions have been in play the whole time.

6 likes 22mo
VB
v.bhattacharyaTL229 Sep 2024#122
crossref_check, post #78: Careful with the language on Sodium. "Not detected" and "not present" are different findings and the first is a statement about the method. Go to post

The most useful thing anyone has posted about Sodium in this category was a table of what had been measured and by whom. That is what I would want again.

16 likes in reply to #78 22mo
AS
a.salcedoTL3Regular29 Sep 2024 · edited#123

Magnesium supplementation is widely recommended in this space with very little supporting evidence for the indications it is recommended for.

It is the sort of thing that seems obvious in retrospect and was not at the time.

0 likes 22mo
AS
a.sorensenTL230 Sep 2024#124

Post #120 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Symptoms attributed to electrolytes here are non-specific and overlap with dehydration, low intake and poor sleep. Attribution from symptoms alone is unreliable.

The number is defensible. The precision I gave it is not.

1 like 22mo
FF
f.fonsecaTL230 Sep 2024#125

Post #122 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Constipation and hydration: dehydration makes constipation worse. Increasing fluid intake is the first intervention for constipation alongside other measures.

The literature is thinner on this than the confidence in the thread implies.

10 likes 22mo
BO
b.okonkwoTL21 Oct 2024#126

Coming back to post #124, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

I changed my mind about Sodium after someone here asked me for the source and I could not produce one. That is worth saying out loud because it is the ordinary way it happens.

22 likes 22mo
JD
j.dahlbergTL21 Oct 2024#127
z.onwuka, post #96: Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half. Go to post

On Sodium, the part that usually goes wrong is that the question is asked as though it has one answer. It has a range, and the width of the range is the interesting bit.

If you can post the two or three numbers you are working from, several people here will check the arithmetic rather than argue about the conclusion.

0 likes in reply to #96 22mo
TW
t.wojcikTL22 Oct 2024#128

Commercial rehydration formulations are designed for a specific purpose and are not equivalent to a sports drink, whatever the marketing suggests.

3 likes 22mo
CO
c.ostergaardTL22 Oct 2024#129
a.salcedo, post #123: Magnesium supplementation is widely recommended in this space with very little supporting evidence for the indications it is recommended for. It is the sort of thing that seems obvious in retrospect and was not at the time. Go to post

Lab testing: if symptoms are severe or persistent, checking electrolytes and minerals (sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium) and interpreting them in context of losses during weight loss is reasonable.

15 likes in reply to #123 22mo
PI
p.iyer_pharmdTL3Pharmacist3 Oct 2024#130
a.adeyemi, post #24: Building on post #21 rather than restating it. Symptoms attributed to electrolytes here are non-specific and overlap with dehydration, low intake and poor sleep. Attribution from symptoms alone is unreliable. Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #128 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Very low total intake produces multiple simultaneous deficiencies rather than one, which is why single-nutrient reasoning goes wrong here.

Written from notes rather than memory, which is why the numbers are specific.

30 likes in reply to #24 22mo
YA
y.asanteTL23 Oct 2024#131

I read post #127 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Marking my uncertainty on Sodium explicitly. I am confident about the direction, much less confident about the size, and not confident at all that it generalises past the case in the first post.

0 likes 22mo
JW
journalclub_wrenTL3Regular4 Oct 2024#132

Sodium: losing weight involves losing some sodium. Electrolyte drinks or salty foods help maintain sodium balance. Very low sodium intake on these compounds raises orthostatic symptoms risk.

I would call that likely rather than established.

0 likes 22mo
SV
s.vukovicTL24 Oct 2024#133
n.nyberg, post #65: I had written a reply contradicting post #61 and deleted it. Here is what survived. Practical note on Sodium: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow. Go to post

Fluid intake: baseline needs increase with gastrointestinal effects and exercise. Thirst is not a reliable guide during appetite suppression. Drinking regularly (not just when thirsty) is prudent.

12 likes in reply to #65 22mo
SS
steady_stateTL3Regular5 Oct 2024 · edited#134

This follows post #131 rather than contradicting it.

The very ordinary causes of week-two malaise: inadequate hydration, low sodium intake, too-rapid calorie deficit, and inadequate sleep are more common causes of fatigue and malaise than compound toxicity.

4 likes 22mo
HA
h.agyemanTL25 Oct 2024#135

Useful. I have added it to my own notes with the date on it.

0 likes 22mo
NA
n.abernathyTL3Analytical chemist6 Oct 2024#136

Post #134 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Magnesium supplementation is widely recommended in this space with very little supporting evidence for the indications it is recommended for.

That is what I would do. It may not be what is correct.

26 likes 22mo
EH
e.halonenTL26 Oct 2024#137
f.fenwick, post #53: Lab testing: if symptoms are severe or persistent, checking electrolytes and minerals (sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium) and interpreting them in context of losses during weight loss is reasonable. Noting that I have skin in this question and have tried to discount for it. Go to post

Potassium: similar to sodium; losing weight involves some potassium loss. Bananas, sweet potatoes, and other potassium-rich foods help. Severe depletion is rare but symptomatic (weakness, palpitations).

None of the above is medical advice and I am not qualified to give any.

8 likes in reply to #53 22mo
DH
dietitian_hollisTL3Dietitian7 Oct 2024#138

Cramping is the symptom most confidently attributed to electrolytes and has the weakest evidence linking it to them.

2 likes 22mo
VR
v.rautioTL27 Oct 2024#139

Orthostatic symptoms: dizziness on standing after lying down can indicate dehydration or electrolyte depletion. Increasing fluids, salt, and potassium usually resolves it.

0 likes 22mo
BJ
b.jankowiakTL3Regular7 Oct 2024#140

Supplementing without measuring is the default approach described here and it carries its own risks, particularly for potassium.

19 likes 22mo
MA
mi.almeidaTL28 Oct 2024#141

The strongest argument against my own position on Sodium, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

0 likes 22mo
NT
n.torrenceTL3Regular8 Oct 2024#142

Sodium intake often falls sharply when processed food intake falls, and that transition is abrupt rather than gradual for many people.

2 likes 22mo
KA
k.agyemanTL29 Oct 2024#143
k.kimani, post #52: Coming back to post #48, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Reduced intake reduces electrolyte intake alongside everything else, which is the mechanism behind most of what gets attributed to the compound here. Not the whole picture, but the part of it I can speak to. Go to post

Constipation and hydration: dehydration makes constipation worse. Increasing fluid intake is the first intervention for constipation alongside other measures.

8 likes in reply to #52 22mo

Suggested topics

TopicParticipantsRepliesViewsActivity
The headache that turns out to be dehydration — the long version
On the subject in the title: The headache that turns out to be dehydration — the long version Working notes rather than a conclusion. A narrow question about headache, deliberately narrow, because the broad…
NDMPBFAARZ+68 73 1.3k 12h
Follow-up: Sodium, potassium and magnesium when intake drops
On the subject in the title: Sodium, potassium and magnesium when intake drops Working notes rather than a conclusion. A hydration and intake question, with the figures, since this one is unanswerable without…
BPVNICCDJH+8 12 335 7mo
About the Hydration & electrolytes category
Fluid intake, sodium, potassium and magnesium, and the very ordinary causes of week-two malaise. This post is a community wiki: any member at trust level 3 or above can edit it, and every edit is recorded…
DOKFNCARL 4 3.6k 18h
Electrolyte supplements: which ones do anything
On the subject in the title: Electrolyte supplements: which ones do anything Working notes rather than a conclusion. A hydration and intake question, with the figures, since this one is unanswerable without…
ARKAWNNKV+47 51 31k 18d
Follow-up: How much fluid is actually needed, and how you would know
How much fluid is actually needed, and how you would know — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. Reporting what I changed and what happened, with the caveat…
ARJTCVMSBP+17 21 12k 13mo

Related topics — sharing the tags heart rate, blood pressure, fatigue

TopicParticipantsRepliesViewsActivity
Hepatic steatosis: what the MASH trial evidence supports
Hepatic steatosis: what the MASH trial evidence supports — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Trying to work out what would count as evidence on hepatic steatosis, before…
CMPCNLSMA+77 83 950 13mo
Dizziness on standing: the ordinary explanation first — one year on
Dizziness on standing: the ordinary explanation first — one year on — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. A hydration and intake question, with the figures, since this one is…
RBAZOVMDBN+12 16 1.1k 2d
Vomiting: when it is expected and when it is a reason to stop
Posting this under the heading it deserves: Vomiting: when it is expected and when it is a reason to stop Everything below is what sits behind that. Reporting something rather than asking about it, in case…
VMCCNDVPO+116 124 43k 7mo
Muscle cramps: the ordinary causes before the exotic ones — a second dataset
Posting this under the heading it deserves: Muscle cramps: the ordinary causes before the exotic ones — a second dataset Everything below is what sits behind that. Something about Muscle cramps does not…
JSTADPICCD+65 77 39k 1d
Injection-site reactions: describing them precisely enough to be useful
Injection-site reactions: describing them precisely enough to be useful Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. Trying to work out what would count as evidence on…
HNIBPSMMM+81 86 3.6k 19mo