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Devices · Cold chain · continued

Domestic fridge temperature mapping: a cheap experiment — what changed since posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

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j.petrovTL24 Jan 2025#31

Light protection: avoid direct sunlight and UV exposure. Amber vials or opaque containers reduce light exposure. For short-term storage, keeping the vial in its original packaging (often opaque) usually suffices.

Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me.

5 likes 19mo
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compounding_ruthTL46 Jan 2025#32
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i.norgaardTL28 Jan 2025#33
g.valckenaere, post #23: Post #19 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. Two things can be true about Domestic fridge temperature mapping at once: the mechanism is plausible and the evidence for the size of the effect is thin. Most of the argument here is people defending the first against attacks on the second. Go to post

Checked the Domestic fridge temperature mapping claim against the primary source this morning. It survives, with a narrower scope than the version quoted here. Posting the narrower scope.

0 likes in reply to #23 19mo
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impurity_tableTL3Analytical chemist10 Jan 2025#34
j.petrov, post #31: Light protection: avoid direct sunlight and UV exposure. Amber vials or opaque containers reduce light exposure. For short-term storage, keeping the vial in its original packaging (often opaque) usually suffices. Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me. Go to post

The honest answer on Domestic fridge temperature mapping is that it depends, and the useful part is the list of what it depends on. Four items, in rough order of how much they matter.

Most people get the first two right and then argue about the fourth.

0 likes in reply to #31 19mo
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m.rasmussenTL212 Jan 2025#35

A cold pack still solid on day seven is a genuinely good sign about the packing and says nothing about days two through six.

If the premise is wrong, everything after it is decoration.

8 likes 18mo
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z.onwukaTL214 Jan 2025 · edited#36

Since Domestic fridge temperature mapping keeps coming up, it should probably be a maintained page rather than a recurring thread. I am happy to draft it if someone with more direct experience will review it.

20 likes 18mo
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v.sjobergTL216 Jan 2025#37

Right, and stated more narrowly than I would have dared to state it.

0 likes 18mo
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t.vasquezTL4 Moderator18 Jan 2025#38
j.petrov, post #31: Light protection: avoid direct sunlight and UV exposure. Amber vials or opaque containers reduce light exposure. For short-term storage, keeping the vial in its original packaging (often opaque) usually suffices. Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me. Go to post

Assessing an excursion: if a package sat at room temperature for a time, visual inspection (cloudiness, discoloration, particles) can alert you to problems. Not visible does not mean not damaged, but visible problems are a reason to contact the supplier.

Correct me on the arithmetic if it is wrong; I would rather know.

2 likes in reply to #31 18mo
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c.chowdhuryTL220 Jan 2025#39

Seconded. It reads as careful rather than confident, which is the right register.

13 likes 18mo
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two_year_lineTL3Regular22 Jan 2025#40
m.stephanopoulos, post #11: Post #8 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. Shipping container and cold packs: reputable suppliers use insulated containers with cold packs designed to arrive cool. Checking on arrival that cold packs are still cold is a sign the chain was maintained. Go to post

The arithmetic on Domestic fridge temperature mapping is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it.

27 likes in reply to #11 18mo
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CSagredoTL3Regular24 Jan 2025#41

I read post #38 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Insulation performance depends on the mass of the coolant more than on the thickness of the box. A large pack in a modest box outperforms a small pack in a good one.

9 likes 18mo
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r.novakTL226 Jan 2025#42

Post #41 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Repacking cold material into a domestic refrigerator promptly on arrival is the one step that is entirely within your control and the one most often delayed.

Same conclusion as the reply above, reached differently, which is mildly reassuring.

2 likes 18mo
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buffer_reviewTL3Regular28 Jan 2025#43
j.silva, post #14: No disagreement from me. Posting only so the question does not look ignored. Go to post

The version of Domestic fridge temperature mapping that I was taught turned out to be a teaching simplification. Useful, and not true in the way I had assumed it was.

0 likes in reply to #14 18mo
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h.bhattacharyaTL230 Jan 2025#44

Whatever the answer on Domestic fridge temperature mapping turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction.

29 likes 18mo
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cannula_driftTL3Regular1 Feb 2025#45

A temperature indicator that has tripped tells you a threshold was crossed. It does not tell you for how long, and duration is most of what determines whether anything happened.

5 likes 18mo
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sa.vogelTL23 Feb 2025#46

Narrowing post #45, because the general version has more than one answer.

Temperature logging: devices that record temperature over time let you confirm cold chain was maintained. Useful if a shipment was delayed or if you are concerned about excursion.

1 like 18mo
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BGiordanoTL2Member5 Feb 2025#47
m.stephanopoulos, post #11: Post #8 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. Shipping container and cold packs: reputable suppliers use insulated containers with cold packs designed to arrive cool. Checking on arrival that cold packs are still cold is a sign the chain was maintained. Go to post

Post #45 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

The interaction between cold chain and the storage question is that a warm transit spends part of the material's stability budget before it reaches you, and the budget is not visible.

The honest answer is that it depends, and here is what it depends on.

0 likes in reply to #11 18mo
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a.mwangiTL27 Feb 2025#48

Following this. I have the same question and no better information than the first post.

21 likes 18mo
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m.coelhoTL29 Feb 2025 · edited#49

Temperature excursions: brief excursions above 8 °C are tolerable for most compounds. Hours to a day at room temperature is usually acceptable. Days to weeks at room temperature risks degradation.

I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this.

20 likes 18mo
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b.vestergaardTL211 Feb 2025#50

What I want from this Domestic fridge temperature mapping thread is the list of things that would need to be true for the claim to hold. If we can write that list, we can check it.

9 likes 18mo
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h.vargaTL213 Feb 2025#51

Confirming post #49 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Nobody has said the unglamorous part of Domestic fridge temperature mapping yet, so: most of the variation is explained by things that are boring to write about and easy to check.

15 likes 17mo
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v.szaboTL3Analytical chemist15 Feb 2025#52

Same experience here, different supplier, so it is at least not unique to one of them.

31 likes 17mo
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k.laurentTL217 Feb 2025#53
e.mensa, post #30: Taking post #27 at face value and following it one step further. On Domestic fridge temperature mapping: the maintained page in the documentation commons covers the general case with citations and a review date, which is more reliable than any reply here including this one. Go to post

Temperature loggers in the parcel exist and are occasionally used for high-value shipments. They are the only thing that turns an argument about transit into a record.

0 likes in reply to #30 17mo
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s.karlsen_rphTL3Pharmacist18 Feb 2025#54

Assessing an excursion: if a package sat at room temperature for a time, visual inspection (cloudiness, discoloration, particles) can alert you to problems. Not visible does not mean not damaged, but visible problems are a reason to contact the supplier.

A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none.

3 likes 17mo
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i.bakkenTL220 Feb 2025 · edited#55

Post #53 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

The question underneath Domestic fridge temperature mapping is usually "how would I tell?" rather than "what is true?", and that one has a method attached to it.

Write down what you would expect to see under each hypothesis before you collect anything. If they predict the same observation, collecting it will not help.

10 likes 17mo
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KLindqvistTL4 Moderator22 Feb 2025#56

Reconstituted solutions: once reconstituted, solutions are less stable than lyophilised powder. Refrigerate prepared solutions immediately after preparation. Most stability claims assume refrigeration.

The short version is the first sentence; the rest is why.

23 likes 17mo
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l.dziedzicTL224 Feb 2025#57
t.vasquez, post #38: Assessing an excursion: if a package sat at room temperature for a time, visual inspection (cloudiness, discoloration, particles) can alert you to problems. Not visible does not mean not damaged, but visible problems are a reason to contact the supplier. Correct me on the arithmetic if it is wrong; I would rather know. Go to post

Worth separating Domestic fridge temperature mapping as a question about the compound from Domestic fridge temperature mapping as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here.

0 likes in reply to #38 17mo
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n.lehtinenTL226 Feb 2025#58

Small correction to my own earlier position on Domestic fridge temperature mapping. I had the units the wrong way round, which changes the conclusion by an order of magnitude and therefore changes it entirely.

1 like 17mo
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a.weissTL228 Feb 2025#59

Do not judge cold-chain performance from a single delivery in either direction. It is a distribution and one sample from it is one sample.

Old habit: I write down the expected answer before I calculate it.

29 likes 17mo
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k.roosTL22 Mar 2025#60
b.adeyemi, post #2: Domestic fridge temperature mapping is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers. Go to post

A phase-change pack holds a defined temperature while it changes state and then behaves like anything else. A gel pack starts cold and warms continuously. They are different tools for different transit lengths.

I would put this at better than even and not much better.

0 likes in reply to #2 17mo