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Devices · Cold chain · continued

Domestic fridge temperature mapping: a cheap experiment — what changed since posts 91–120

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

FS
f.sjobergTL224 Apr 2025#91

Post #88 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

A phase-change pack holds a defined temperature while it changes state and then behaves like anything else. A gel pack starts cold and warms continuously. They are different tools for different transit lengths.

I am confident about the direction and much less about the magnitude.

0 likes 15mo
DO
dr_okonkwoTL4 Moderator26 Apr 2025#92

Temperature loggers in the parcel exist and are occasionally used for high-value shipments. They are the only thing that turns an argument about transit into a record.

If that is already documented somewhere, ignore me and link it.

2 likes 15mo
ML
m.lehtinenTL228 Apr 2025#93
baseline_peak, post #13: The practical version of Domestic fridge temperature mapping is three sentences long. The rigorous version is three pages and reaches the same conclusion with the conditions attached. Go to post

Arrival condition tells you about the last few hours and very little about the middle of the journey. A pack that is soft on arrival may have been soft for four days or for four hours.

9 likes in reply to #13 15mo
CC
c.cardosoTL229 Apr 2025#94

Thank you — that answers what I came here to find out.

21 likes 15mo
NB
n.brobergTL21 May 2025 · edited#95

Post #92 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

I would keep Domestic fridge temperature mapping and the decision it usually gets used for separate in this thread. They are related and they are not the same question, and merging them is why the last one went badly.

0 likes 15mo
OO
orbitrap_olaTL3Mass spectrometrist3 May 2025#96

Coming back to post #95, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

A temperature indicator that has tripped tells you a threshold was crossed. It does not tell you for how long, and duration is most of what determines whether anything happened.

The disagreement above is smaller than it looks once the terms are fixed.

5 likes 15mo
MP
m.perrinTL24 May 2025#97
IMainwaring, post #3: A temperature indicator that has tripped tells you a threshold was crossed. It does not tell you for how long, and duration is most of what determines whether anything happened. The literature is thinner on this than the confidence in the thread implies. Go to post

Two questions I would want answered before drawing anything from the Domestic fridge temperature mapping data above: how were the cases selected, and what happened to the ones that dropped out.

14 likes in reply to #3 15mo
SK
s.karlsen_rphTL3Pharmacist6 May 2025#98

Where I would push back on the Domestic fridge temperature mapping consensus is the confidence, not the direction. The direction looks right. The confidence is borrowed.

29 likes 15mo
CV
c.vasquezTL28 May 2025#99

This is the sort of exchange that makes the archive worth searching.

2 likes 15mo
CL
customs_ledgerTL3Regular9 May 2025#100

I had written a reply contradicting post #98 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Regional stock shortens the exposure window more effectively than any packing improvement, which is the practical argument for it beyond speed.

9 likes 15mo
SS
steady_stateTL3Regular11 May 2025#101
l.dziedzic, post #57: Worth separating Domestic fridge temperature mapping as a question about the compound from Domestic fridge temperature mapping as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here. Go to post

Domestic refrigeration: most lyophilised peptides are stored at 2–8 °C (35–46 °F). That is standard refrigerator temperature. Check your refrigerator's actual temperature; some are warmer than the label.

A guess, clearly labelled as one.

9 likes in reply to #57 15mo
SV
s.vukovicTL212 May 2025#102

Answering the question post #100 raises rather than the one it answers.

Temperature excursions: brief excursions above 8 °C are tolerable for most compounds. Hours to a day at room temperature is usually acceptable. Days to weeks at room temperature risks degradation.

Happy to be corrected if someone holds better data than mine.

21 likes 15mo
JW
journalclub_wrenTL3Regular14 May 2025 · edited#103

Lyophilised material is far more tolerant of a warm transit than a solution would be, which is why suppliers ship dry and why an excursion is not automatically a loss.

0 likes 14mo
YA
y.asanteTL216 May 2025#104

What I would tell a new member reading about Domestic fridge temperature mapping for the first time: the confident posts are not the reliable ones, and the reliable ones are longer.

2 likes 14mo
DH
dietitian_hollisTL3Dietitian17 May 2025#105
m.coelho, post #49: Temperature excursions: brief excursions above 8 °C are tolerable for most compounds. Hours to a day at room temperature is usually acceptable. Days to weeks at room temperature risks degradation. I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this. Go to post

Shipment during summer or to hot climates: consider shipping to a cold-storage facility rather than to home if temperatures will be high. Alternatively, time shipment to arrive when you can refrigerate immediately.

14 likes in reply to #49 14mo
EH
e.halonenTL219 May 2025#106
mi.amankwah, post #73: The arithmetic in post #70 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check. Shipment during summer or to hot climates: consider shipping to a cold-storage facility rather than to home if temperatures will be high. Alternatively, time shipment to arrive when you can refrigerate immediately. Go to post

Temperature logging: devices that record temperature over time let you confirm cold chain was maintained. Useful if a shipment was delayed or if you are concerned about excursion.

For what it is worth, the same held on the two occasions I checked.

29 likes in reply to #73 14mo
NA
n.abernathyTL3Analytical chemist20 May 2025#107

Building on post #106 rather than restating it.

Repacking cold material into a domestic refrigerator promptly on arrival is the one step that is entirely within your control and the one most often delayed.

0 likes 14mo
HA
h.agyemanTL222 May 2025#108

Clear enough that I do not think I have a follow-up, which is unusual.

5 likes 14mo
PW
PharmNotes_WhitfieldTL4Pharmacist24 May 2025#109
c.chowdhury, post #39: Seconded. It reads as careful rather than confident, which is the right register. Go to post

Post #106 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

An honest declaration on Domestic fridge temperature mapping: I have a prior here and it is strong enough that you should weight what I say downward. Stating it rather than hiding it.

20 likes in reply to #39 14mo
NK
n.kuuselaTL225 May 2025#110

Recording arrival condition on ordinary deliveries is what makes the record useful. A file containing only the bad arrivals cannot tell you how often they happen.

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LF
l.ferreiraTL227 May 2025#111

Helpful, and short, which on this subject is harder than long.

1 like 14mo
G
GDashwoodTL3Regular28 May 2025#112

I read the earlier replies on Domestic fridge temperature mapping twice before writing this, because I had assumed the opposite and wanted to be sure I was disagreeing with what was said rather than what I expected.

0 likes 14mo
MS
m.silvaTL230 May 2025#113

Domestic fridge temperature mapping came up in a thread eighteen months ago and was answered well. I cannot find it, which is itself the problem, so here is the reconstruction.

17 likes 14mo
CV
c.vermeulenTL21 Jun 2025#114
LC
lu.cabreraTL22 Jun 2025#115
a.cardoso, post #75: On Domestic fridge temperature mapping the community has more anecdote than the confidence in this thread implies, and I include my own contribution in that. Go to post

Post #112 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

I have three months of notes on Domestic fridge temperature mapping and the honest summary is that the trend is real and the week-to-week numbers are noise. I nearly drew the opposite conclusion from the first fortnight.

0 likes in reply to #75 14mo
VS
v.salgadoTL24 Jun 2025#116

Adding the measurement that post #115 says would settle it.

A note on how Domestic fridge temperature mapping gets discussed rather than on Domestic fridge temperature mapping itself: the confident posts get the replies and the careful ones get ignored, and the careful ones have been right more often.

0 likes 14mo
JC
j.castellanosTL25 Jun 2025#117

Freeze-thaw: some peptides tolerate freezing; others do not. Check your compound's labelling. Generally, repeated freeze-thaw is worse than single freeze-thaw.

Noting that I have skin in this question and have tried to discount for it.

12 likes 14mo
JS
j.sorensenTL27 Jun 2025#118
v.salgado, post #116: Adding the measurement that post #115 says would settle it. A note on how Domestic fridge temperature mapping gets discussed rather than on Domestic fridge temperature mapping itself: the confident posts get the replies and the careful ones get ignored, and the careful ones have been right more often. Go to post

Something worth flagging about Domestic fridge temperature mapping: the strongest-sounding claims in this thread are the ones with no source attached, which is the usual pattern and not a coincidence.

4 likes in reply to #116 14mo
JM
j.mwangiTL4 Moderator8 Jun 2025#119
d.oyelaran, post #65: Temperature loggers in the parcel exist and are occasionally used for high-value shipments. They are the only thing that turns an argument about transit into a record. The number is defensible. The precision I gave it is not. Go to post

Reframing Domestic fridge temperature mapping slightly, because I think the disagreement is about the question rather than the answer. If the question is "does it happen", yes. If it is "how often", nobody here knows.

0 likes in reply to #65 14mo
SC
s.coelhoTL210 Jun 2025#120

Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half.

25 likes 14mo