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Sourcing · Vendor reports · continued

Reporting a discrepancy without making an allegation posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

BM
buffer_marginTL3Regular17 Aug 2024#31

The question underneath reporting a discrepancy is usually "how would I tell?" rather than "what is true?", and that one has a method attached to it.

Write down what you would expect to see under each hypothesis before you collect anything. If they predict the same observation, collecting it will not help.

0 likes 23mo
AH
a.hartmannTL218 Aug 2024 · edited#32
a.pereira, post #3: Confirming post #2 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. Do not adjust a reported figure. Post what the laboratory said and put your interpretation in a separate sentence. Go to post

Building on post #29 rather than restating it.

Dosing and purity: a vial that is 99% pure might contain 80% of its label claim if the other mass is water, counter-ion, and excipient. Purity and content are different. Both matter for different reasons.

That has been true for the cases I have seen and I have not seen many.

31 likes in reply to #3 23mo
EC
excursion_checkTL3Regular19 Aug 2024#33

Marking my uncertainty on reporting a discrepancy explicitly. I am confident about the direction, much less confident about the size, and not confident at all that it generalises past the case in the first post.

16 likes 23mo
SV
s.vanheckeTL219 Aug 2024#34

If someone has run reporting a discrepancy properly I would rather read that than my own reconstruction of it. Posting mine only because the thread has gone quiet.

6 likes 23mo
TT
taper_tableTL3Regular20 Aug 2024#35

Where I part company with post #33, and it is a narrow parting.

Reports of ordinary results are more valuable than reports of remarkable ones, precisely because only the remarkable ones get posted elsewhere.

Same conclusion as the reply above, reached differently, which is mildly reassuring.

0 likes 23mo
TV
t.verhoevenTL221 Aug 2024#36
c.ostergaard, post #7: Post #6 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. The cost of a submission is worth stating. It is the main reason people do not do this and knowing the figure helps somebody else decide. That is all I can say without guessing. Go to post

Post #33 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Agreed on reporting a discrepancy, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states.

23 likes in reply to #7 23mo
LC
l.chevalierTL3Regular22 Aug 2024#37

That matches what I have seen, for whatever a single anecdote is worth.

10 likes 23mo
EM
e.mensaTL222 Aug 2024#38

The version of reporting a discrepancy that I was taught turned out to be a teaching simplification. Useful, and not true in the way I had assumed it was.

3 likes 23mo
SD
s.dziedzicTL223 Aug 2024#39

Do not adjust a reported figure. Post what the laboratory said and put your interpretation in a separate sentence.

That has held every time I have looked, which is not the same as always.

32 likes 23mo
BN
b.nilsenTL224 Aug 2024#40

Adding thanks rather than a view. I do not have a view worth the space.

16 likes 23mo
VB
v.bergstromTL224 Aug 2024#41
m.nwosu, post #30: Post #27 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Reading back through the reporting a discrepancy threads from last year, the same three questions come up every time and only one of them has ever been answered properly. That seems like a documentation gap rather than a knowledge gap. Go to post

Picking up post #38: that is the part I would want checked first.

I read the earlier replies on reporting a discrepancy twice before writing this, because I had assumed the opposite and wanted to be sure I was disagreeing with what was said rather than what I expected.

2 likes in reply to #30 23mo
RJ
r.jhannsdttirTL3Regular25 Aug 2024#42

A note on how reporting a discrepancy gets discussed rather than on reporting a discrepancy itself: the confident posts get the replies and the careful ones get ignored, and the careful ones have been right more often.

9 likes 23mo
PK
p.krastevTL226 Aug 2024#43

Photograph the vial and the label before opening. It costs ten seconds and it is what turns a report into something checkable.

None of the above is medical advice and I am not qualified to give any.

29 likes 23mo
V
VPoulsenTL3Regular26 Aug 2024#44

Worth stating the null on reporting a discrepancy before we explain it: the observation may be nothing. That possibility deserves a sentence and usually does not get one.

0 likes 23mo
FD
f.danquahTL227 Aug 2024#45

Fair, and the limits you put on it are the part I will remember.

5 likes 23mo
CC
crossref_checkTL3Wiki editor28 Aug 2024#46

Post #44 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Reporting rather than recommending, on reporting a discrepancy. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer.

14 likes 23mo
SG
s.girardTL228 Aug 2024#47

Dosing and purity: a vial that is 99% pure might contain 80% of its label claim if the other mass is water, counter-ion, and excipient. Purity and content are different. Both matter for different reasons.

That is the shape of it. The detail is where I would expect to be corrected.

0 likes 23mo
CO
c.okaforTL329 Aug 2024#48
AI
a.ilungaTL230 Aug 2024#49

The bit of reporting a discrepancy that nobody enjoys is that the answer changes depending on what you are trying to decide with it. Say what the decision is and the thread will converge.

0 likes 23mo
LE
logbook_erinTL3Regular30 Aug 2024#50

Answering the question post #49 raises rather than the one it answers.

Reframing reporting a discrepancy slightly, because I think the disagreement is about the question rather than the answer. If the question is "does it happen", yes. If it is "how often", nobody here knows.

3 likes 23mo
LS
l.salinasTL231 Aug 2024#51

The cost of a submission is worth stating. It is the main reason people do not do this and knowing the figure helps somebody else decide.

Worth one more sentence than it usually gets.

0 likes 23mo
AR
a.reyesTL4 Admin1 Sep 2024#52
t.verhoeven, post #36: Post #33 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. Agreed on reporting a discrepancy, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states. Go to post

Taking post #51 at face value and following it one step further.

Do not adjust a reported figure. Post what the laboratory said and put your interpretation in a separate sentence.

0 likes in reply to #36 23mo
NS
n.silvaTL21 Sep 2024#53
unit_conversion, post #20: Narrowing post #19, because the general version has more than one answer. Do not adjust a reported figure. Post what the laboratory said and put your interpretation in a separate sentence. I would want to see it done twice before believing it once. Go to post

Second this, and I would have said it less carefully.

14 likes in reply to #20 23mo
SL
s.leclercTL4 Moderator2 Sep 2024#54

The confident answers on reporting a discrepancy and the well-sourced answers are not the same answers, which is the most useful thing I have learned reading this category.

5 likes 23mo
EI
e.iyerTL23 Sep 2024 · edited#55

Worth separating two things that post #51 runs together.

Adding the boring version of reporting a discrepancy, because the interesting version keeps getting posted and the boring one is usually right.

Check the ordinary explanations, in order, and stop when one of them accounts for what you are seeing. Most of the time the second one does.

0 likes 23mo
MH
ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist3 Sep 2024#56

This follows post #55 rather than contradicting it.

Reports of ordinary results are more valuable than reports of remarkable ones, precisely because only the remarkable ones get posted elsewhere.

28 likes 23mo
CC
ch.correiaTL24 Sep 2024#57
methods_margin, post #27: Confirming post #24 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. The cost of a submission is worth stating. It is the main reason people do not do this and knowing the figure helps somebody else decide. Reporting the observation and leaving the explanation open deliberately. Go to post

Two things can be true about reporting a discrepancy at once: the mechanism is plausible and the evidence for the size of the effect is thin. Most of the argument here is people defending the first against attacks on the second.

9 likes in reply to #27 23mo
DV
dr.villanuevaTL3Physician5 Sep 2024#58

I keep a log for reporting a discrepancy specifically because my memory of it turned out to be systematically wrong in one direction. Six weeks of notes cost nothing and settled it.

2 likes 23mo
RB
r.bruunTL25 Sep 2024#59

On post #55 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Dosing and purity: a vial that is 99% pure might contain 80% of its label claim if the other mass is water, counter-ion, and excipient. Purity and content are different. Both matter for different reasons.

4 likes 23mo
SC
sourced_claimsTL3Regular6 Sep 2024#60

Fine by me. I had wanted a stronger conclusion and there is not one available.

0 likes 23mo