Wellbeing · Sleep

Insomnia at a dose step: reported experiences

Wellbeing › Sleep fatigue obstructive sleep apnoea heart rate

Solved

Solved by f.petrov in post #3

Reflux at night follows directly from delayed gastric emptying and is a mechanical explanation for a complaint often attributed elsewhere.

Jump to the accepted answer →

maintenance_modeTL3Regular16 Jul 2025#1

On the subject in the title: Insomnia at a dose step: reported experiences Working notes rather than a conclusion.

A sleep question with what I actually recorded rather than how I feel about it.

Bedtime and rise time to the nearest quarter hour, 96 consecutive nights, plus a single 0-4 score for how the following morning went. The device numbers I have kept separately, because I do not trust them and I did not want them contaminating the diary.

The pattern I am asking about is in the middle of the series and I cannot decide whether it is real or an artefact of a change in when I recorded.

4 likes 12mo

integrator_draftTL3Regular26 Jul 2025#2

Useful. I have added it to my own notes with the date on it.

8 likes 12mo

f.petrovTL2 Solution3 Aug 2025#3

integrator_draft, post #2: Useful. I have added it to my own notes with the date on it. Go to post

Reflux at night follows directly from delayed gastric emptying and is a mechanical explanation for a complaint often attributed elsewhere.

20 likes in reply to #2 12mo

v.milanoviTL3Regular9 Aug 2025 · edited#4

f.petrov, post #3: Reflux at night follows directly from delayed gastric emptying and is a mechanical explanation for a complaint often attributed elsewhere. Go to post

Where the insomnia reasoning breaks down for me is the step from the group result to the individual case. That step is almost never argued for.

0 likes in reply to #3 12mo

s.solbergTL216 Aug 2025#5

Collapsed as off-topic by two members at trust level 3 or above

An update on my earlier insomnia post: the pattern held for another six weeks and then stopped, which I did not predict and cannot explain.

h.koodziejTL2Member21 Aug 2025 · edited#6

A referral for a proper sleep study answers in one night what months of forum discussion cannot.

That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category.

13 likes 11mo

h.fonsecaTL227 Aug 2025#7

f.petrov, post #3: Reflux at night follows directly from delayed gastric emptying and is a mechanical explanation for a complaint often attributed elsewhere. Go to post

Picking up post #6: that is the part I would want checked first.

The strongest argument against my own position on insomnia, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

27 likes in reply to #3 11mo

v.klausenTL3Regular1 Sep 2025#8

A sleep diary with times rather than impressions is the only way to tell a real change from a remembered one, and it takes a minute a day.

0 likes 11mo

d.vestergaardTL26 Sep 2025#9

Reading rather than answering, but this is the post I would point somebody at.

26 likes 11mo

FairweatherTL2Member11 Sep 2025#10

integrator_draft, post #2: Useful. I have added it to my own notes with the date on it. Go to post

Insomnia is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

0 likes in reply to #2 11mo

dr_bhattacharyaTL3Physician16 Sep 2025#11

On post #7 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

An honest declaration on insomnia: I have a prior here and it is strong enough that you should weight what I say downward. Stating it rather than hiding it.

0 likes 10mo

d.vukovicTL221 Sep 2025#12

integrator_draft, post #2: Useful. I have added it to my own notes with the date on it. Go to post

Energy availability affects sleep in both directions, and a large deficit can produce either fragmentation or unusual sleepiness.

28 likes in reply to #2 10mo

m.dalgaardTL3Regular26 Sep 2025#13

Fairweather, post #10: Insomnia is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at. Go to post

Right — I had this wrong and I am glad to have read it before it mattered.

9 likes in reply to #10 10mo

r.mensaTL230 Sep 2025#14

Small methodological point on insomnia: repeating a measurement is cheap and resolves most of what is being argued about here at no cost to anyone.

2 likes 10mo

titration_diaryTL3Regular5 Oct 2025#15

Insomnia looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour.

0 likes 10mo

a.jansenTL29 Oct 2025#16

Collapsed as off-topic by two members at trust level 3 or above

Eating patterns shift substantially and late intake affects sleep independently of anything pharmacological.

Small point, but it is the one that usually catches people.

g.tanakaTL3Regular14 Oct 2025#17

titration_diary, post #15: Insomnia looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour. Go to post

The practical version of insomnia is three sentences long. The rigorous version is three pages and reaches the same conclusion with the conditions attached.

5 likes in reply to #15 9mo

i.guerreroTL218 Oct 2025#18

Post #15 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Consumer sleep trackers measure movement and heart rate and infer stages. The inference is imprecise and the trend is more usable than the nightly numbers.

The interesting part of this is the exception, and I do not understand the exception.

0 likes 9mo

d.szymanskiTL3Wiki editor22 Oct 2025#19

f.petrov, post #3: Reflux at night follows directly from delayed gastric emptying and is a mechanical explanation for a complaint often attributed elsewhere. Go to post

Insomnia would be much easier to settle if anyone reported the denominator. Almost nobody reports the denominator.

2 likes in reply to #3 9mo

m.mwangiTL227 Oct 2025#20

i.guerrero, post #18: Post #15 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. Consumer sleep trackers measure movement and heart rate and infer stages. The inference is imprecise and the trend is more usable than the nightly numbers. The interesting part of this is the exception, and I do not understand the exception. Go to post

Taking post #19 at face value and following it one step further.

What I would tell a new member reading about insomnia for the first time: the confident posts are not the reliable ones, and the reliable ones are longer.

0 likes in reply to #18 9mo

MSaarinenTL331 Oct 2025#21

Collapsed as off-topic by two members at trust level 3 or above

Nothing here is medical advice, and suspected sleep-disordered breathing specifically is something to have assessed properly rather than tracked.

I would put the burden of proof on the interesting explanation, not the dull one.

i.rasmussenTL24 Nov 2025#22

No notes. Posting so the count is not one.

0 likes 9mo

VThorvaldsenTL3Regular8 Nov 2025 · edited#23

Taking post #20 at face value and following it one step further.

The documentation on insomnia is better than this thread and I say that as someone who has posted in the thread.

4 likes 9mo

i.brobergTL212 Nov 2025#24

i.rasmussen, post #22: No notes. Posting so the count is not one. Go to post

Sleep quality changes reported here have several plausible contributors, and separating drug effects from weight change, from schedule change, and from anxiety is genuinely difficult.

The reasoning is more useful than the number, which is why I have shown it.

13 likes in reply to #22 8mo

KnowltonTL3Regular16 Nov 2025#25

v.milanovi, post #4: Where the insomnia reasoning breaks down for me is the step from the group result to the individual case. That step is almost never argued for. Go to post

Any objective measurement, even an imprecise one, beats a recollection when the question is whether something changed.

Worth reading the earlier posts in this thread before acting on mine.

0 likes in reply to #4 8mo

This topic was referenced in

Injection timing and sleep disruptionWellbeing › Sleep · 3 replies

Topic	Participants	Replies	Views	Activity
About the Sleep category Wellbeing › Sleep obstructive sleep apnoea fatigue heart rate Pinned Wiki Sleep quality, apnoea, and the bidirectional relationship with metabolic health. This post is a community wiki: any member at trust level 3 or above can edit it, and every edit is recorded with its author and…	+1	5	92	4mo
Injection timing and sleep disruption Wellbeing › Sleep fatigue heart rate obstructive sleep apnoea Solved Posting this under the heading it deserves: Injection timing and sleep disruption Everything below is what sits behind that. Injection timing and sleep disruption: setting out the arithmetic in full, because…		3	39k	3h
Follow-up: Sleep quality changes during weight loss Wellbeing › Sleep fatigue obstructive sleep apnoea heart rate On the subject in the title: Sleep quality changes during weight loss Working notes rather than a conclusion. A follow-up question about Sleep quality changes during weight that I did not know to ask the…	+74	80	4.4k	14h
Sleep quality changes during weight loss — what changed since Wellbeing › Sleep obstructive sleep apnoea heart rate fatigue Sleep quality changes during weight loss — what changed since Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. What changes if the standard account of Sleep quality changes…	+68	74	10k	8mo
Sleep apnoea improving and the equipment implications Wellbeing › Sleep obstructive sleep apnoea heart rate fatigue Sleep apnoea improving and the equipment implications Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. A sleep question with what I actually recorded rather than how I feel…	+14	18	1.1k	17h

Topic	Participants	Replies	Views	Activity
Meeting a protein target on a suppressed appetite — one year on Nutrition & Training › Protein & intake constipation fatigue lean mass loss micronutrients Solved Meeting a protein target on a suppressed appetite — one year on — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Asking about Meeting a protein target directly, because I have read four…	+15	19	19k	22mo
Fibre intake when total intake falls, and the constipation link — one year on Nutrition & Training › Protein & intake micronutrients lean mass loss fatigue Posting this under the heading it deserves: Fibre intake when total intake falls, and the constipation link — one year on Everything below is what sits behind that. An honest uncertainty about Fibre intake…	+9	13	16k	16h
Second pass at: Programming during a large energy deficit Nutrition & Training › Resistance training DXA lean mass loss fatigue Posting this under the heading it deserves: Second pass at: Programming during a large energy deficit Everything below is what sits behind that. Two things I would like separated before anyone answers on…	+44	48	632	30d
Two sessions a week versus four: what the evidence supports Nutrition & Training › Resistance training fatigue DXA lean mass loss Wiki On the subject in the title: Two sessions a week versus four: what the evidence supports Working notes rather than a conclusion. Reporting rather than asking, and the method is stated so the numbers mean…	+27	31	22k	20mo
Dizziness on standing and the electrolyte explanation — does this still hold? Practice › Side effects vomiting hair shedding nausea constipation Solved The question in the title: Dizziness on standing and the electrolyte explanation — does this still hold? I will give what I have already checked below so nobody repeats it. Trying to work out what would count…	+89	94	18k	1mo

Insomnia at a dose step: reported experiences

This topic was referenced in

Suggested topics

Related topics — sharing the tags fatigue, obstructive sleep apnoea, heart rate