The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Nutrition & Training · Resistance training · continued

Recovery when intake is low: what to cut first posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

VD
vial_deskTL3Regular11 Jan 2025#31

Picking up post #28: that is the part I would want checked first.

The failure mode on recovery is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong.

0 likes 19mo
MA
m.adebayoTL211 Jan 2025#32

Cardiovascular work has its own benefits and is not a substitute for a resistance stimulus for this particular purpose.

4 likes 19mo
RA
r.arbuthnotTL1Member11 Jan 2025 · edited#33

Intensity: using weights that allow 6 to 12 reps before fatigue is a reasonable range for preserving muscle. Heavier weights with lower reps can work but require more recovery.

12 likes 19mo
AE
a.eriksenTL211 Jan 2025#34
b.fonseca, post #21: Worth separating two things that post #17 runs together. Two things can be true about recovery at once: the mechanism is plausible and the evidence for the size of the effect is thin. Most of the argument here is people defending the first against attacks on the second. Go to post

Deload weeks matter more during a deficit than at maintenance because recovery is the limiting factor.

Written quickly, so the reasoning may be tighter than the wording.

25 likes in reply to #21 19mo
TT
taper_tableTL3Regular11 Jan 2025#35
z.iyer, post #26: I disagree with the framing of recovery above, and I think it is a substantive disagreement rather than a terminological one. Setting out why, so it can be checked. The reasoning depends on an assumption that is doing a lot of work and is never stated. If the assumption holds, the conclusion follows. I do not think it holds generally. Go to post

This follows post #32 rather than contradicting it.

Recovery: heavier training on a energy deficit and on a compound that slows gastric emptying requires attention to recovery (sleep, nutrition, stress). Recovery capacity declines with deficit, so training volume might need adjustment.

I have written this out at length because the short version keeps being misread.

1 like in reply to #26 19mo
SV
s.vanheckeTL211 Jan 2025#36

Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is.

7 likes 19mo
LC
l.chevalierTL3Regular11 Jan 2025#37

Anybody returning after a break should expect to start lower than they left, and expecting otherwise is where injuries come from.

17 likes 19mo
TV
t.verhoevenTL211 Jan 2025#38
sterile_table, post #20: Frequency: three sessions per week of full-body training is easier to maintain than higher frequencies on an energy deficit. Consistency beats intensity when recovery capacity is limited. Go to post

One more thing on recovery that took me far too long to see: the two figures people quote are not measuring the same quantity. Once you notice that, the apparent contradiction disappears.

0 likes in reply to #20 18mo
CN
c.niemelTL3Regular12 Jan 2025#39

Agreed on recovery, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states.

0 likes 18mo
KH
k.haddadTL212 Jan 2025#40

Answering the question post #38 raises rather than the one it answers.

Machine-based work is often better tolerated when energy is low and is not inferior for this purpose.

If this contradicts something upthread, the upthread version may well be the better one.

0 likes 18mo
SS
s.stavrianosTL2Member12 Jan 2025#41
vial_desk, post #31: Picking up post #28: that is the part I would want checked first. The failure mode on recovery is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong. Go to post

Nothing here is medical advice and anybody with a relevant condition should have a programme reviewed by somebody qualified rather than assembled from a forum.

It cost nothing to check and would have cost something not to.

0 likes in reply to #31 18mo
JL
j.lokkenTL212 Jan 2025#42
d.tamm, post #22: That is a cleaner way of putting what I was circling around. Go to post

Worth stating the null on recovery before we explain it: the observation may be nothing. That possibility deserves a sentence and usually does not get one.

21 likes in reply to #22 18mo
D
DKwiatkowskiTL3Regular12 Jan 2025#43

That reframing is the whole thing. The facts I already had.

5 likes 18mo
LK
l.krastevTL212 Jan 2025#44

Where somebody is losing strength rapidly, the first questions are intake, sleep and total training volume, in that order.

This is the sort of thing that ought to be settled and apparently is not.

1 like 18mo
BT
baseline_tableTL2Member12 Jan 2025#45
t.verhoeven, post #38: One more thing on recovery that took me far too long to see: the two figures people quote are not measuring the same quantity. Once you notice that, the apparent contradiction disappears. Go to post

Offering a way to settle recovery rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision.

0 likes in reply to #38 18mo
EK
ew.kuuselaTL212 Jan 2025#46

The arithmetic in post #44 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

If you are new and reading this thread for the answer to recovery: the answer is conditional, the conditions are in the third reply, and the rest of the thread is worth skipping.

29 likes 18mo
D
DSakamotoTL3Regular12 Jan 2025 · edited#47

Cardiovascular work has its own benefits and is not a substitute for a resistance stimulus for this particular purpose.

Posted with less confidence than the sentence structure implies.

9 likes 18mo
AV
a.villalobosTL212 Jan 2025#48

Nothing here is medical advice and anybody with a relevant condition should have a programme reviewed by somebody qualified rather than assembled from a forum.

2 likes 18mo
CW
cohort_watchTL2Member12 Jan 2025#49

Everything in post #47 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Recovery capacity falls with energy availability, so a programme that worked at maintenance may be too much during a large deficit.

The uncertainty is in the assumption, not in the calculation.

22 likes 18mo
AC
a.coelhoTL212 Jan 2025 · edited#50
r.marsden, post #16: Everything in post #12 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have. Recovery sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly. Go to post

Counterpoint on recovery, offered without confidence: the same observation is consistent with a much duller explanation, and nobody has ruled the dull one out.

10 likes in reply to #16 18mo
GT
g.tammTL212 Jan 2025#51
N
NorringtonTL3Regular12 Jan 2025#52

Posting my recovery numbers with the method attached so they can be discounted properly. Uncontrolled, unblinded, and collected by someone who wanted a particular answer.

3 likes 18mo
EK
e.kuipersTL213 Jan 2025#53

Taking post #50 at face value and following it one step further.

Recovery: I have looked for the primary source twice and failed twice. Either it does not exist or it is somewhere I do not know to look, and I would like to know which.

15 likes 18mo
LM
lyophil_marginTL3Regular13 Jan 2025#54
lc_gradient, post #30: The reports here that state the programme, the load and the timeframe are useful. The ones that state an outcome are not. Go to post

Post #52 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Reduced appetite makes fuelling a session harder, and that is a practical problem with practical solutions rather than a reason to stop.

That is the honest state of it as of this week.

30 likes in reply to #30 18mo
HK
h.krastevTL213 Jan 2025#55
lyophil_margin, post #54: Post #52 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Reduced appetite makes fuelling a session harder, and that is a practical problem with practical solutions rather than a reason to stop. That is the honest state of it as of this week. Go to post

Two questions I would want answered before drawing anything from the recovery data above: how were the cases selected, and what happened to the ones that dropped out.

0 likes in reply to #54 18mo
TF
taper_fileTL3Regular13 Jan 2025#56

On recovery the community has more anecdote than the confidence in this thread implies, and I include my own contribution in that.

1 like 18mo
CK
c.kuuselaTL213 Jan 2025 · edited#57

Building on post #54 rather than restating it.

The reports here that state the programme, the load and the timeframe are useful. The ones that state an outcome are not.

A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations.

10 likes 18mo
D
DSakamotoTL3Regular13 Jan 2025#58

Deload weeks: periodic weeks (every 4 to 8 weeks) with reduced volume and intensity can help with recovery and sometimes reveal strength gains that got obscured by fatigue.

23 likes 18mo
ZN
z.nakamuraTL213 Jan 2025#59

Post #58 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

On recovery, I would rather understate and be corrected upward than overstate and be quoted. That is a house style here and it is a good one.

32 likes 18mo
I
IbrahimoviTL2Member13 Jan 2025#60

Coming back to post #56, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Whatever the answer on recovery turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction.

0 likes 18mo