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Scheduled maintenance and what will be unavailable posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

IB
i.balogunTL22 Feb 2025 · edited#31

The rare case here is the one that costs somebody a week, though, and the common case costs everyone ten seconds. I think the trade is clearly correct.

If anyone has run this properly I would rather read that than my own guess.

26 likes 18mo
JR
j.rasmussenTL2Regular3 Feb 2025#32

A note on how scheduled maintenance gets discussed rather than on scheduled maintenance itself: the confident posts get the replies and the careful ones get ignored, and the careful ones have been right more often.

0 likes 18mo
CC
c.chowdhuryTL24 Feb 2025#33

Post #32 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

The honest answer on scheduled maintenance is that it depends, and the useful part is the list of what it depends on. Four items, in rough order of how much they matter.

Most people get the first two right and then argue about the fourth.

2 likes 18mo
RM
r.mcalisterTL3Regular5 Feb 2025#34
j.rasmussen, post #32: A note on how scheduled maintenance gets discussed rather than on scheduled maintenance itself: the confident posts get the replies and the careful ones get ignored, and the careful ones have been right more often. Go to post

I read post #30 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Thank you for announcing it in advance rather than after. The number of places that do the reverse is remarkable.

8 likes in reply to #32 18mo
JS
j.sandvikTL26 Feb 2025#35
KLindqvist, post #3: I read the opening post twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. I would put moderate confidence on the mainstream reading of scheduled maintenance and no more. That is not scepticism for its own sake; it is where the sourcing actually stops. Go to post

The arithmetic on scheduled maintenance is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it.

0 likes in reply to #3 18mo
CR
crossover_reviewTL3Regular7 Feb 2025#36

Quietly grateful for the plain phrasing. Not every thread gets that.

0 likes 18mo
HF
h.friskTL28 Feb 2025#37

Worth stating the null on scheduled maintenance before we explain it: the observation may be nothing. That possibility deserves a sentence and usually does not get one.

4 likes 18mo
AT
a.thorneTL2Wiki editor9 Feb 2025#38
i.balogun, post #31: The rare case here is the one that costs somebody a week, though, and the common case costs everyone ten seconds. I think the trade is clearly correct. If anyone has run this properly I would rather read that than my own guess. Go to post

Everything in post #34 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

The edit is clearer. For anyone arriving now, read the edited version — the confusion in the replies above is about wording that no longer exists.

12 likes in reply to #31 18mo
IN
i.norgaardTL210 Feb 2025#39
s.lindqvist, post #15: Narrowing post #13, because the general version has more than one answer. Staff announcements, policy changes, and scheduled maintenance. Read-only except for questions clarifying what was announced. Go to post

Building on post #37 rather than restating it.

Second-hand on scheduled maintenance, so weight it accordingly — someone whose method I trust told me this and I have not verified it myself.

0 likes in reply to #15 18mo
IT
impurity_tableTL3Analytical chemist11 Feb 2025#40

Post #38 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

The bit of scheduled maintenance that nobody enjoys is that the answer changes depending on what you are trying to decide with it. Say what the decision is and the thread will converge.

1 like 18mo
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NicolaidesTL3Regular12 Feb 2025#41
f.kimani, post #4: The opening post answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. The question underneath scheduled maintenance is usually "how would I tell?" rather than "what is true?", and that one has a method attached to it. Write down what you would expect to see under each hypothesis before you collect anything. If they… Go to post

Worth saying publicly: stepping back cleanly and handing over is a service. Documents with an absent maintainer go wrong quietly, which is the worst way for them to go wrong.

15 likes in reply to #4 17mo
WV
w.verhoevenTL213 Feb 2025#42
j.sandvik, post #35: The arithmetic on scheduled maintenance is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it. Go to post

I keep a log for scheduled maintenance specifically because my memory of it turned out to be systematically wrong in one direction. Six weeks of notes cost nothing and settled it.

6 likes in reply to #35 17mo
SG
s.grigorescuTL2Member14 Feb 2025#43

That reframing is the whole thing. The facts I already had.

0 likes 17mo
RW
r.weissTL215 Feb 2025#44

Scheduled maintenance is one of those subjects where the general answer and the answer for a specific case diverge, and the thread will go in circles until someone says which one is being asked for.

31 likes 17mo
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DKwiatkowskiTL3Regular16 Feb 2025#45
c.dahlberg, post #8: The reason scheduled maintenance is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent. Go to post

One question about the transition rather than the policy: what happens to topics that are in flight when it takes effect? The announcement is clear about posts and silent about drafts.

22 likes in reply to #8 17mo
DA
d.achebeTL217 Feb 2025 · edited#46

Adding the measurement that post #44 says would settle it.

Staff announcements, policy changes, and scheduled maintenance. Read-only except for questions clarifying what was announced.

One case, stated as one case.

10 likes 17mo
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NorringtonTL3Regular18 Feb 2025#47

Small correction to my own earlier position on scheduled maintenance. I had the units the wrong way round, which changes the conclusion by an order of magnitude and therefore changes it entirely.

1 like 17mo
GT
g.tammTL219 Feb 2025#48

Before the thread moves on from scheduled maintenance — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred.

0 likes 17mo
WP
weekly_pinTL2Regular20 Feb 2025#49
k.farrugia, post #14: Nothing to add, except that this is the answer I would give if asked. Go to post

Post #47 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

The rare case here is the one that costs somebody a week, though, and the common case costs everyone ten seconds. I think the trade is clearly correct.

Not the whole picture, but the part of it I can speak to.

29 likes in reply to #14 17mo
SA
s.adebayoTL221 Feb 2025#50

Taking post #47 at face value and following it one step further.

Thank you for announcing it in advance rather than after. The number of places that do the reverse is remarkable.

That matches what I was told, which is not the same as knowing it.

15 likes 17mo
OO
orbitrap_olaTL3Mass spectrometrist22 Feb 2025#51

I would keep scheduled maintenance and the decision it usually gets used for separate in this thread. They are related and they are not the same question, and merging them is why the last one went badly.

23 likes 17mo
IA
i.almeidaTL223 Feb 2025#52

Answering the question post #48 raises rather than the one it answers.

Scheduled maintenance: if the site is going offline for maintenance, advance notice will be posted here with the duration and scope.

0 likes 17mo
DS
dr_seongTL3Physician24 Feb 2025#53

Small methodological point on scheduled maintenance: repeating a measurement is cheap and resolves most of what is being argued about here at no cost to anyone.

3 likes 17mo
CV
c.vasquezTL225 Feb 2025 · edited#54
Norrington, post #47: Small correction to my own earlier position on scheduled maintenance. I had the units the wrong way round, which changes the conclusion by an order of magnitude and therefore changes it entirely. Go to post

Where I would push back on the scheduled maintenance consensus is the confidence, not the direction. The direction looks right. The confidence is borrowed.

11 likes in reply to #47 17mo
CL
customs_ledgerTL3Regular26 Feb 2025#55
j.marchetti, post #17: Scheduled maintenance is well covered in the tag pages, and the older discussions are better than the recent ones because they were argued out properly. Worth twenty minutes before adding to this one. Go to post

Adding the measurement that post #54 says would settle it.

The edit is clearer. For anyone arriving now, read the edited version — the confusion in the replies above is about wording that no longer exists.

17 likes in reply to #17 17mo
FW
f.weissTL227 Feb 2025#56
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w.novakTL3Regular28 Feb 2025#57

Scheduled maintenance is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

1 like 17mo
NK
n.kravchenkoTL21 Mar 2025#58

Worth saying publicly: stepping back cleanly and handing over is a service. Documents with an absent maintainer go wrong quietly, which is the worst way for them to go wrong.

I would put a moderate confidence on that and no more.

7 likes 17mo
ME
me.eriksenTL22 Mar 2025#59
vial_desk, post #24: Post #21 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Worth saying publicly: stepping back cleanly and handing over is a service. Documents with an absent maintainer go wrong quietly, which is the worst way for them to go wrong. Go to post

Picking up post #58: that is the part I would want checked first.

Scheduled maintenance sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly.

0 likes in reply to #24 17mo
ML
m.lehtinenTL23 Mar 2025#60

An update on my earlier scheduled maintenance post: the pattern held for another six weeks and then stopped, which I did not predict and cannot explain.

1 like 17mo