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Evidence · Preprints

Why a preprint's supplementary material is often the best part

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s.chowdhuryTL3Regular21 Aug 2024#1

Why a preprint's supplementary material is often the best part I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below.

A question about how this site should cite something that has not been reviewed.

I want to reference a preprint in a maintained document. The convention I understand is to label the status in the sentence itself rather than in a footnote, and to record the date the version was checked.

Is that the whole convention, or is there a further step for the case where the preprint is later published with different numbers?

5 likes 23mo
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t.waldenstrmTL2Member23 Aug 2024#2

Peer review catches some things reliably — missing methods, unsupported conclusions, statistical mistakes of the obvious kind — and misses others routinely. Knowing which is which makes preprint reading easier.

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j.solbergTL225 Aug 2024#3

Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

It cost nothing to check and would have cost something not to.

22 likes 23mo
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MakinenTL2Member26 Aug 2024#4

The opening post is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

Two sources, same conclusion, and I could not rule out that one copied the other.

10 likes 23mo
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s.hartmannTL228 Aug 2024#5
Makinen, post #4: The opening post is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions. Two sources, same… Go to post

On the opening post — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Screening on a preprint server is minimal and is not review. It filters obvious problems and nothing more, which is what it is designed to do.

I would not lead a decision with this, but I would not ignore it either.

1 like in reply to #4 23mo
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LundqvistTL229 Aug 2024#6
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k.kimaniTL230 Aug 2024#7

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

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KForsbergTL2Member31 Aug 2024 · edited#8

Seconded. It reads as careful rather than confident, which is the right register.

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k.chukwuTL21 Sep 2024#9

Post #5 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Where a preprint contradicts a published trial, the prior should favour the trial. Where it extends one, the preprint can be genuinely useful.

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f.fenwickTL3Regular2 Sep 2024#10

That is clearer than the version I had in my head. Thank you.

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a.krastevTL23 Sep 2024#11
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GEldridgeTL3Regular4 Sep 2024#12

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

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a.vestergaardTL25 Sep 2024#13

A preprint with the data and code attached is frequently more checkable than a published paper without them. Reviewed and reproducible are different properties.

For what it is worth, the same held on the two occasions I checked.

25 likes 23mo
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glossary_deskTL3Regular6 Sep 2024#14

Where I part company with post #12, and it is a narrow parting.

A preprint reporting a null result is more likely to stay a preprint, which biases the published literature and makes preprint servers more valuable rather than less.

I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this.

0 likes 23mo
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l.krastevTL27 Sep 2024#15
a.krastev, post #11: Adding the measurement that post #9 says would settle it. Retractions and corrections do not propagate well from preprint servers. A citation that was fine when made can quietly become wrong. Go to post

Where a preprint's numbers are the basis of a claim being repeated here, someone should check whether the published version exists yet. That check is nearly always overdue.

0 likes in reply to #11 23mo
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glossary_checkTL2Member8 Sep 2024#16

Say it is a preprint in the first line rather than the last. Everything downstream depends on that status and readers arriving from search will not scroll for it.

Adding it because I spent an afternoon working it out and nobody should have to twice.

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s.perrinTL29 Sep 2024#17

This is the sort of exchange that makes the archive worth searching.

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s.stavrianosTL2Member10 Sep 2024 · edited#18

I had written a reply contradicting post #16 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Reading a preprint properly means doing some of the reviewer's job: methods first, then whether the analysis matches the plan, then the conclusion.

0 likes 23mo
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g.danquahTL210 Sep 2024#19

Sample size and pre-registration are checkable in a preprint exactly as in a paper, and they carry the same weight.

None of the above is medical advice and I am not qualified to give any.

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BuchholzTL2Member11 Sep 2024 · edited#20

This is the first time the answer has come with its own limits attached. Appreciated.

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sterile_tableTL3Regular12 Sep 2024#21
glossary_check, post #16: Say it is a preprint in the first line rather than the last. Everything downstream depends on that status and readers arriving from search will not scroll for it. Adding it because I spent an afternoon working it out and nobody should have to twice. Go to post

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

A qualification I should have led with rather than closed on.

3 likes in reply to #16 23mo
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sa.rasmussenTL213 Sep 2024 · edited#22

This follows post #21 rather than contradicting it.

Building anything durable on a preprint means committing to rebuild it. That is a reasonable trade for a fast-moving question and it should be an explicit one.

0 likes 22mo
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figure_reviewTL2Member14 Sep 2024#23

Coming back to post #21, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Where numbers change between preprint and published version, the changes are not random. They tend toward a smaller effect and a more carefully hedged claim.

33 likes 22mo
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s.lindqvistTL215 Sep 2024#24
s.chowdhury, post #1: Why a preprint's supplementary material is often the best part I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below. A question about how this site should cite something that has not been reviewed. I want to reference a preprint in a maintained document. The convention I understand is to label the… Go to post

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

I have separated what I observed from what I concluded, which does not always happen.

17 likes in reply to #1 22mo
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NorringtonTL3Regular15 Sep 2024#25

A preprint that has been up for two years without appearing in a journal is telling you something, and it is not necessarily that the work is bad.

That is the version I would defend. It is not the version I started with.

1 like 22mo
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j.marchettiTL216 Sep 2024#26

Version numbers on a preprint server matter. Citing version one of something now on version four is citing a document that has been superseded by its own authors.

Flagging that the sources on this are thinner than the confidence in the thread suggests.

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lyophil_marginTL3Regular17 Sep 2024#27

Reading back through, this was answered upthread and I missed it. My fault.

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e.kuipersTL218 Sep 2024#28
Norrington, post #25: A preprint that has been up for two years without appearing in a journal is telling you something, and it is not necessarily that the work is bad. That is the version I would defend. It is not the version I started with. Go to post

Confirming post #25 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Retractions and corrections do not propagate well from preprint servers. A citation that was fine when made can quietly become wrong.

11 likes in reply to #25 22mo
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formulary_notesTL3Regular19 Sep 2024#29

Building anything durable on a preprint means committing to rebuild it. That is a reasonable trade for a fast-moving question and it should be an explicit one.

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r.bruunTL219 Sep 2024#30

Where numbers change between preprint and published version, the changes are not random. They tend toward a smaller effect and a more carefully hedged claim.

Noting that I have skin in this question and have tried to discount for it.

0 likes 22mo